thisbluespirit (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
thisbluespirit) wrote2021-12-21 01:59 pm
thisbluespirit) wrote2021-12-21 01:59 pm
Happy Birthday...
... to aralias, meneleth, whuffle, rosied, & jaxomsride2 who all share this very special day!
And also of course a very unhappy fortieth Gauda Prime Day to everyone who knows what that means! (I remain as amused as ever that so many of the people above do know - so happy birthday/commiserations! Celebrate as appropriately as you may! Possibly... XD)
I hadn't realised it was 40 years till yesterday! Anyway, in lieu of something more, I've been repointing people to my Why Classic Who Fans Should Watch Blake's 7 post andaralias's similar but different why you should watch blake's 7, f-list.
It is old and creaky TV now, but for anyone for whom that is not a barrier who can get hold of it, it is hands down one of the best TV rides I've ever had, with some of the best characters, and I recommend checking it out. For a short-lived BBC SF show (4x13 50min eps), it's had a very long impact and almost all the current crop of TV SF are in some way its grandchildren - its children being Babylon 5, Farscape and Firefly, who all took important aspects from it. (JMS drops in the odd Avon quote in homage, just to prove it.)
(It also has Ben Steed, but we can talk about that when & if anyone gets to S3.)
Anyway, it is genuinely awesome. I know this is sad and weird of me, but when I reached the end after other Classic Who fans bullied me into giving it a go about 12 or so years ago, I just stood up and clapped. And then was v relieved there was no one else around. But... yes. It was one hell of a ride, and they'd all been right, and I loved it.
aralias, meneleth, whuffle, rosied, & jaxomsride2 who all share this very special day!And also of course a very unhappy fortieth Gauda Prime Day to everyone who knows what that means! (I remain as amused as ever that so many of the people above do know - so happy birthday/commiserations! Celebrate as appropriately as you may! Possibly... XD)
I hadn't realised it was 40 years till yesterday! Anyway, in lieu of something more, I've been repointing people to my Why Classic Who Fans Should Watch Blake's 7 post and
aralias's similar but different why you should watch blake's 7, f-list.It is old and creaky TV now, but for anyone for whom that is not a barrier who can get hold of it, it is hands down one of the best TV rides I've ever had, with some of the best characters, and I recommend checking it out. For a short-lived BBC SF show (4x13 50min eps), it's had a very long impact and almost all the current crop of TV SF are in some way its grandchildren - its children being Babylon 5, Farscape and Firefly, who all took important aspects from it. (JMS drops in the odd Avon quote in homage, just to prove it.)
(It also has Ben Steed, but we can talk about that when & if anyone gets to S3.)
Anyway, it is genuinely awesome. I know this is sad and weird of me, but when I reached the end after other Classic Who fans bullied me into giving it a go about 12 or so years ago, I just stood up and clapped. And then was v relieved there was no one else around. But... yes. It was one hell of a ride, and they'd all been right, and I loved it.
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Having seen both "Terminal" and "Blake" now, I definitely found "Terminal" more traumatic. I might not have applauded at the end of "Blake," but the only character death in it--taken at face value--that actually bothered me was Tarrant's of all people. Even then it wasn't his dying by itself that was the issue, it was the feeling that rather than having been allowed to simply die in the Scorpio crash he was kept alive to be the plot device that facilitated the misunderstanding between Blake and Avon. Mostly I was good with the deaths, not that I haven't got fix-it fic ideas to save all the characters I care about in the show including Zen. I just am not traumatized by that finale.
S4 has rather a shaky start, I think - so I hope maybe as it goes on, you might find it a little better for you!
S4 definitely picked up as it went along. I didn't like Tarrant much S3, but as I said by the end of S4 it was Tarrant's death that actually bothered me in the finale.
But I like Soolin very much, although her backstory has a late reveal, so she's grown on me loads in rewatches, and the latter half of S4, I think is a pretty solid run, and includes a couple of my favourite episodes.
Soolin might grow on me with rewatches, but she didn't make much of an impression on me first run through. Her death was with Vila's and Blake's as one I didn't care about. Dayna and Avon I felt sad about, and Tarrant's I felt angry about, but the others...
And, aha, you laready have a stake in the great Ben Steed debate! XD
Yep, I've only done one binge through, but on first run through alone I think his first episode is the worst with the later ones showing slightly more effort to actually write science fiction. I mean all his episodes played to me like he liked to think of himself as "a writer of serious drama," and he was forced to write some science fiction by a female producer. They aren't just "women should know their place," they're "powerful women should be put in their place," and even at their most science fictional they have an anti-technology bent that screams "I don't want to be doing this" to me.
It seems pretty typical of the Federation really, so it's as good an explanation as any, and better than none at all!
Completely agree!
The first half of S4 includes some of my least favourite episodes, so I wish you onto greener pastures! (Once you get to "Headhunter" which is fun (for, er, a S4/general B7 value of 'fun', it's at least fairly solid with two or three standouts - imo only, of course!!)
The Tanith Lee S4 episode was just as great as I hoped it would be, and I think it contributed to my caring a good deal more for Tarrant his second season than his first. I can do my Top Five Favorite Characters on firsy view, but not sure about a Top Five Favorite Episodes.
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My two most traumatic eps, though, are definitely Terminal and Orbit! But then, like you, I knew Blake was coming, and the other two were completely unexpected and upsetting.
and he was forced to write some science fiction by a female producer.
Idk, the anti-tech thing is not untypical of plenty of the era's other SF, and the basic premise of things like Terry Nation's Survivors, and aspects of Doomwatch - even sitcom The Good Life, so I think it was kind of in the zeitgeist at the time, rather than being him not wanting to do sf (although he may not - BBC writers got sort of posted around, or sent in scripts to everything, so it was kind of random and some writers couldn't do the SF very well). But both producers (David Maloney and Vere Lorrimer) were male anyway, so he has no excuse - he's just the worst of the 1970s misogyny made up as a B7 episode. (
But wooo! Well done! You made it! (Unlike all the characters. XD)
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Heh, at first it was a great distraction from all the tension of selling the family home of more than 20 years, and now it's a great distraction from technically being homeless (I'm staying at an AirBnB between permanent residences). I'm very grateful you were able give me the confidence to watch it, even if your having talked me into Sapphire and Steel first meant I briefly wondered what Silver was doing on GP in the finale.
I find probably Vila and Dayna...
I can imagine given how you've talked about them as favorites. I was sort of disappointed by the finale feeling more like a massacre than a shoot out. I'd heard it compared to the Wild Bunch and Butch and Sundance, but I didn't get the impression the regulars got to do much shooting.
Slave because I didn't care about it much, but then when it's dying it calls Tarrant by name instead of Master, and that gets me every time.
Aww, I didn't catch the shift in how Slave addressed him. I found it sad because it wished Tarrant better luck at surviving, and I knew Tarrant was just as doomed if not quite as immediately.
My two most traumatic eps, though, are definitely Terminal and Orbit!
Hmm, given "Orbit" doesn't ring a bell it must not have made that strong an impression on me. I definitely hate "Terminal." I can see a comparison between Blake's 7 and Torchwood now, not in writing quality, B7 is generally much better written, but in terms of suffering from cast turnover and getting away from things that defined the series--destroying The Liberator/destroying the Hub, killing Blake/making someone besides Jack immortal. They both breakdown over time.
...although he may not - BBC writers got sort of posted around, or sent in scripts to everything, so it was kind of random and some writers couldn't do the SF very well.
It might be that it was in the zeitgeist at the time, but at the very least it didn't fit with how the characters in B7 itself generally react to technology in the show. They may generally think of the AI as computers rather than people and correspondingly not treat them as well as they should, but they aren't as negative towards technology when others are writing as when Ben Steed is.
liadtbunny watched his Crown Court episode and he was just as misogynistic when he was writing mundane TV. He also apparently wrote a whole children's TV show. The mind boggles. 0_o
Wow. Yeah. I mean I might be able tp rank the episodes from The Worst to least terrible to me, but they're really all awful.
But wooo! Well done! You made it! (Unlike all the characters. XD)
Thank you! I've more than made it. I watched all of Sapphire and Steel without getting terribly attached. I mean I recognized Silver, but I didn't dwell on what he was doing there. I'm a full Blake's 7 convert. I want icons and audiobooks. I've been looking for Blake's 7 fanvids on youtube. I'm more than a little amused that while I've had zero luck getting anyone to make me a Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes fanvid to The Travelling Willburys "End of the Line" I've found a Blake's 7 fanvid to it-- B7 End of the Line
no subject
Haha & yay! Good luck! Try
I was sort of disappointed by the finale feeling more like a massacre than a shoot out.
Yes, it is - I don't know who made the misguided comparisons! It's a tragic error, compounded by the arrival of the Federation. But I'd mis-osmosed that Blake really had betrayed them and I couldn't quite believe that, so I was kind of relieved the first time I saw it!
Orbit is a couple of eps before that - the one where Avon tries to kill Vila. That I hadn't been warned for! Michael Keating's performance is so good and upsetting in it. No big reactions; the way he just quietly cries in the darkness. Pretty much everything is broken by the end of S4, in a way I find very interesting, so I'm probably more into this season than you anyway!
Blake was killed because Gareth Thomas insisted on it - it was the condition he made when he agreed to come back one last time, that Blake had to be killed off for good. (He'd gone to be in the RSC instead!) As far as I know, the only character who was killed off for impact rather than because the actor couldn't or wouldn't come back was Gan, because Terry Nation sent down an edict from on high in S2 that they should kill someone, how about Vila? And they chose Gan, and felt very bad about having to get rid of poor David Jackson. Everything else was about practicality, really.
ETA: Fanvids - Zukalis has made loads and a lot of them are good. Here's one general series vid of theirs to the Blake's 7 Song: https://youtu.be/mo8grUJBjVU
Also some by other people - All Fall Down: https://youtu.be/1ljhlyJRIc4
The Final Chapter: https://youtu.be/Eos1Weg9lHc
My Life Would Suck Without You: https://youtu.be/Pb2mG0UtNfc
Fashion Is Danger: https://youtu.be/kmqVreKouzM
And, ha, thank!! - B7 fandom has a tradition of Inappropriate Song vids
Try also: Blake 7 vs Monty Python: https://youtu.be/7OHzKjLKKY8
The Hokey Cokey: https://youtu.be/33uIsUBtdto
Cartoon Heroes: https://youtu.be/7wwQtr9lh3M
Right Said Fred: https://youtu.be/CImVP1-1OzQ
no subject
Thank you so much for your help finally getting into B7!
Try sallymn for icons. She makes some lovely ones - most of mine are by her.
Ooo, she does make lovely icons! I've taken one for each of my favorite B7 characters for now. I'll see what I can do about making some icons for myself once I have access to my desktop again.
And, I mean, S&S is a very weird thing and kind of detached in itself. I love it maybe even more than B7, but it's definitely a YMMV sort of thing!
To be fair, I might not have liked S&S as much, but I did watch the entire series and when I saw a certain redhead I did immediately think of him as Silver. I just didn't spend time trying to think of how to turn his appearance into a S&S/B7 crossover.
Orbit is a couple of eps before that - the one where Avon tries to kill Vila.
Ah, I wasn't traumatized by that episode just deeply disappointed that, even though Avon and Vila have been together the better part of four seasons at that point (whether or not that equates to four years in-universe), it doesn't occur to Avon to do a thorough search of the ship for any additional hidden sabotage before jumping straight to murdering Vila to lighten the load, and it doesn't occur to Vila as soon as Avon makes it clear he's brought a gun even though they weren't supposed to that he might want to put the gun where Avon won't find it immediately. The saving grace for me is that Avon in his way apologizes for trying to kill Vila by genuinely asking for his help once he does stumble on the additional sabotage, and Vila in his way gives Avon his forgiveness by saying he'll remember while staying demonstrating the old adage, "forgive, but don't forget."
Pretty much everything is broken by the end of S4, in a way I find very interesting, so I'm probably more into this season than you anyway!
Yeah, basically three things got me through season four--Paul Darrow's smile, Steven Pacey's curls, and the promise of a second Tanith Lee episode. I'm probably more pleased than I should be to have learned on Tumblr, once I started looking for art over there, that "Sand" was Jacqueline Pearce's favorite episode.
As far as I know, the only character who was killed off for impact rather than because the actor couldn't or wouldn't come back was Gan... Everything else was about practicality, really.
I think you're letting TPTB off lightly putting Blake's death on Gareth Thomas rather than them. Sure he insisted he'd only come back if they killed him, but they are the ones that wanted Blake back so badly that they agreed to bring him back just to kill him off. That death was still one of their choosing. It's not like their writing Jenna or Cally out because the actresses didn't come back. I'm frankly more offended by their casually killing Jenna off with a few lines from Blake than I am by their bringing Blake back just to kill him off, but the difference is it's easier to ignore a few lines from Blake than his bloody on camera death. Nice thing about his death being bloody is that it highlights how the active regulars don't show any outward signs of injury when they're zapped by the federation forces they just fall down.
ETA: Fanvids - Zukalis has made loads and a lot of them are good.
Wow! I'll have a lot of fun going through all that!!
And, ha, thank!! - B7 fandom has a tradition of Inappropriate Song vids
You're welcome! Good to know. I may like the fandom just as much as the show. Inappropriate Song vids are something I enjoy. ;-)
no subject
My pleasure! ♥
I think you're letting TPTB off lightly
I'm not letting them off lightly - I don't think there's anything to 'let them off' for in that particular regard, for me: I like S4 overall, quite a lot, and I think what happens with Avon & Blake is kind of perfect, I think Jenna's death sounds very like her, and I love the tragic ending. It feels very Shakespearean and also right with their terrible universe. I enjoy fanfic fixits, too, though, so tragic canon is often the best of both worlds for me. In the right canon, of course! I wouldn't want this in DW or something else that's much lighter. I enjoyed the ending very much; it makes me cry every time and I love it. I'm just sadistic like that with fiction sometimes. I understand other people might not like it, and that's fine, but I do.
(I have one flister who only likes S4! It takes all sorts. ;-p)
Ooo, she does make lovely icons! I've taken one for each of my favorite B7 characters for now.
Yay, I'm glad you found some pretties!
I'm probably more pleased than I should be to have learned on Tumblr, once I started looking for art over there, that "Sand" was Jacqueline Pearce's favorite episode.
It is a good one! Not everyone likes it (as ever with fandom, lol), but I love it. I love having Tanith Lee's weirdness in the show. It's a grim universe, but it's also got some room for some very strange, alien things in the corners.
You're welcome! Good to know. I may like the fandom just as much as the show. Inappropriate Song vids are something I enjoy.
The current fandom on tumblr seems very sweet - and definitely very talented in the art department, so I hope you found some good things.
no subject
Poor word choice on my part. I should've simply said I don't think it's accurate to categorize Blake's death with Jenna's and Cally's rather than with Gan's. Gareth Thomas couldn't have given TPTB an ultimatum if they hadn't made the ask.
I enjoy fanfic fixits, too, though, so tragic canon is often the best of both worlds for me.
I'm glad you enjoy fanfic fixits too. I am giving the full series a second watch while I try to decide which episodes I like best and least, but I'm positive fourth season is my least favorite season. I don't just dislike it for it's lack of Jenna, Zen, and Cally, or for it's ending on a massive unresolved cliffhanger (even if I think it's obvious watching it that it is just an unresolved cliffhanger, and not a massacre), I dislike it because I don't care for a good deal of the writing fourth season. It isn't just Ben Steed and the finale. "Orbit," once you reminded me of it, is another example of the writing I don't care for fourth season. I love the series, but I don't think it gets better as it goes along.
I have one flister who only likes S4! It takes all sorts. ;-p
Talk about "to each their own." x_x
Yay, I'm glad you found some pretties!
On the one hand it's comforting to have icons for everyone I care about now. On the other hand it makes me wish so much I had my desktop right now. I already have some nice pictures from Tumble of Jenna, Avon, and Tarrant I wish I could be icon'ing. I just have to be patient.
It is a good one!
Yep! I might not have my Top Five Favorite Episodes all filled out yet, but I'm sure it will include both Tanith Lee episodes and Mission to Destiny. MtD and the first Tanith Lee episode make use of Cally and Avon in ways I really enjoy, and of course Sand makes great use of Servalan and Tarrant.
Not everyone likes it (as ever with fandom, lol)...
I can imagine. It not only requires a tolerance for Tanith Lee's writing, but tolerance of both Servalan and Tarrant. While I find the whole "Commissioner Sleer" business fourth season silly, it fortunately isn't an issue in Sand. Tarrant knows she's Servalan and she doesn't waste time insisting he call her Sleer. Tarrant managed to grow on me enough by "Sand" that I was happy to have so much of him in it.
I love having Tanith Lee's weirdness in the show.
I love how perfectly the episodes make the point that as much as the humans in B7 are terrible to each other there is more in the universe than the humans and their issues. Some other episodes touch on it a bit, but I can't think of any that do it as well as Tanith Lee's episodes.
It's a grim universe, but it's also got some room for some very strange, alien things in the corners.
I prefer B7 to Firefly for a couple of different reasons. My parents loooved Firefly, were full Browncoats, but I was never that into it. My big problems were how heavily it leaned into its "western in space" style, and it's total lack of aliens. My favorite of "B7's Children" is Farscape. It doesn't just have aliens, but Muppet aliens done more seriously than Pigs in Space. Not that I don't love Babylon 5 too. It has plenty of aliens as well. It's just much more focused on political intrigues. I love the ragtag found family bouncing around their universe. I know B7 doesn't crack my top 3 favorite sci-fi TV series, but I'm not sure if it might bump B5 out of my top 5. My top 3 remain Doctor Who, Star Wars: Rebels, and Farscape. After that...
The current fandom on tumblr seems very sweet - and definitely very talented in the art department, so I hope you found some good things.
I so have! It's great over there!!
no subject
Yes, that's it exactly. ♥
I should've simply said I don't think it's accurate to categorize Blake's death with Jenna's and Cally's rather than with Gan's. Gareth Thomas couldn't have given TPTB an ultimatum if they hadn't made the ask.
Idk, I think the question of where Blake was and why he hadn't come back/they hadn't found him had to be answered at some point, and I'd have done the same thing if I were them! Better to have the closure than not, I think.
I already have some nice pictures from Tumble of Jenna, Avon, and Tarrant I wish I could be icon'ing. I just have to be patient.
Aw, I hope you get the chance soon! Oh, and if you're looking for images for icon-making, there's a marvellous resource about - the Blake's 7 Image Library
I know B7 doesn't crack my top 3 favorite sci-fi TV series, but I'm not sure if it might bump B5 out of my top 5. My top 3 remain Doctor Who, Star Wars: Rebels, and Farscape. After that...
Oh, wow, well that is great! And a rewatch already. My work here is definitely done! Heh. XD
no subject
Given the show's limited budget, and it's effort to be a more serious series than Doctor Who it couldn't very well have the variety of silly looking aliens Doctor Who has. It needed to take a different approach to aliens. Part of what makes "Sand" such a great episode is how it manages to make the alien tiny and global at the same time. The alien is the individual grains of sand and the whole planet.
Idk, I think the question of where Blake was and why he hadn't come back/they hadn't found him had to be answered at some point...
It may have, but it no more required the actor's physical presence than Jenna and Blake's survival of the second season finale did, or Jenna's death in the fourth season finale did. The issue isn't whether or not TPTB needed to tie up the question of Blake's place in the show. The issue is whether or not they required Gareth Thomas' physical presence that's the issue. The fact they wrote both Jenna and Cally off without getting the actresses back, not to mention the whole badly cloned Travis business, along with Blake's own survival from the second season finale by word of mouth alone show that they didn't need Gareth Thomas' physical presence to handle Blake. How they handled him was their choice, not the actor's.
...I'd have done the same thing if I were them!
That's just it, if you were TPTB and you insisted on having Gareth Thomas physically there for your handling of Blake's place in the show you'd be in the same place as Terry Nation insisting on Gan's death. It would be a decision by TPTB on how they felt the story needed to be told, not the decision of the actor.
Better to have the closure than not, I think.
Certainly. Frankly, if I'd been TPTB I'd have killed Jenna and Blake off as part of the intergalactic war that the series pretty much skips over between second and third season. I think an intergalactic war is more deserving of some major character death than the mere attempt to strike at the federation that did get Gan killed. Having made the stretch of keeping them both alive instead, they did deserve some follow up. Ultimately I resent that while the whole show isn't Ben Steed misogynistic it is sexist enough that Jenna and Cally die off camera while Gan and Blake get on camera deaths.
Aw, I hope you get the chance soon!
The place I'm going to be moving to won't be ready before February 10th, and I don't know how quickly I'll be able to get the desktop set up after I'm able to move in. I have to be patient.
Oh, and if you're looking for images for icon-making, there's a marvellous resource about - the Blake's 7 Image Library
Wow! That is definitely a rabbit hole I will disappear down for sometime!!
Oh, wow, well that is great! And a rewatch already. My work here is definitely done! Heh. XD
Absolutely! I do wonder a bit how much B7 was influenced by Star Wars. I mean I don't imagine the first season was influenced much since it debuted less than a year after the first Star Wars movie. Like I know K-9 was already in development at Doctor Who before R2D2 was introduced to the world. Just that B7 ran long enough to not only be aware of the first movie, but the second as well. The second came out in 1980 and B7's final season was 1981. I might prefer Doctor Who to Star Wars or Star Trek, but I was raised on all three and the Original Star Wars trilogy and Star Wars: Rebels are very dear to me.
no subject
The Star Wars film came out while they were in production, and they went to see it and were basically horrified because they knew they couldn't match it. (I haven't got the link any more becuse it was on my former tumblr, but one of them (the designer?) was just "Fuck this, David, I'm going home!"
So, yeah. They were aware of it, but I think all they could do was very much be their own thing because that level of SFX was beyond the BBC. They're much more of a reversed Trek, really. But
no subject
Ouch. I wouldn't have expected them to try to match a Hollywood production budget. One thing to differentiate yourself from Classic Doctor Who and Classic Star Trek. Something else to try to chase after a Hollywood movie.
I haven't got the link any more because it was on my former tumblr, but one of them (the designer?) was just "Fuck this, David, I'm going home!"
It's all right. You've more than answered the basic question of how aware they were of Star Wars while producing the show.
They're much more of a reversed Trek, really. But
The reversed Star Trek is blatantly obvious from the beginning, not just with their calling their evil authoritarian government a "federation" rather than a dictatorship or empire like Star Wars. The symbol they give their federation is basically the one for the Star Trek federation turned on its side. I think, though, part of why I hate fourth season (and someone else might only like fourth season) is that the series does something of a pivot from Star Trek to Star Wars with the destruction of the Liberator. It isn't just that they go from a larger long distance ship to a smaller freighter operating from a base, though that's part of it, it's also in the AI's of the ships. Zen is more the calm voice of the Enterprise while Slave is more 3PO and his constant worrying about things. I don't just miss Zen's calm voice and Jenna and Cally by fourth season, I miss the freedom of the crew being on a galaxy class ship. It's a different show. Course, I may also giggle inappropriately at how much their guns fourth season look like they bought a bunch of toy versions of Han Solo's blaster and painted them silver. They are so not the more interestingly designed guns from the Liberator.