Happy Birthday...

[thisbluespirit]

... to aralias, meneleth, whuffle, rosied, & jaxomsride2 who all share this very special day!


And also of course a very unhappy fortieth Gauda Prime Day to everyone who knows what that means! (I remain as amused as ever that so many of the people above do know - so happy birthday/commiserations! Celebrate as appropriately as you may! Possibly... XD)


I hadn't realised it was 40 years till yesterday! Anyway, in lieu of something more, I've been repointing people to my Why Classic Who Fans Should Watch Blake's 7 post and aralias's similar but different why you should watch blake's 7, f-list.

It is old and creaky TV now, but for anyone for whom that is not a barrier who can get hold of it, it is hands down one of the best TV rides I've ever had, with some of the best characters, and I recommend checking it out. For a short-lived BBC SF show (4x13 50min eps), it's had a very long impact and almost all the current crop of TV SF are in some way its grandchildren - its children being Babylon 5, Farscape and Firefly, who all took important aspects from it. (JMS drops in the odd Avon quote in homage, just to prove it.)

(It also has Ben Steed, but we can talk about that when & if anyone gets to S3.)

Anyway, it is genuinely awesome. I know this is sad and weird of me, but when I reached the end after other Classic Who fans bullied me into giving it a go about 12 or so years ago, I just stood up and clapped. And then was v relieved there was no one else around. But... yes. It was one hell of a ride, and they'd all been right, and I loved it.

Comments

[beccadg]

Haha & yay! Good luck!

Thank you so much for your help finally getting into B7!

Try sallymn for icons. She makes some lovely ones - most of mine are by her.

Ooo, she does make lovely icons! I've taken one for each of my favorite B7 characters for now. I'll see what I can do about making some icons for myself once I have access to my desktop again.

And, I mean, S&S is a very weird thing and kind of detached in itself. I love it maybe even more than B7, but it's definitely a YMMV sort of thing!

To be fair, I might not have liked S&S as much, but I did watch the entire series and when I saw a certain redhead I did immediately think of him as Silver. I just didn't spend time trying to think of how to turn his appearance into a S&S/B7 crossover.

Orbit is a couple of eps before that - the one where Avon tries to kill Vila.

Ah, I wasn't traumatized by that episode just deeply disappointed that, even though Avon and Vila have been together the better part of four seasons at that point (whether or not that equates to four years in-universe), it doesn't occur to Avon to do a thorough search of the ship for any additional hidden sabotage before jumping straight to murdering Vila to lighten the load, and it doesn't occur to Vila as soon as Avon makes it clear he's brought a gun even though they weren't supposed to that he might want to put the gun where Avon won't find it immediately. The saving grace for me is that Avon in his way apologizes for trying to kill Vila by genuinely asking for his help once he does stumble on the additional sabotage, and Vila in his way gives Avon his forgiveness by saying he'll remember while staying demonstrating the old adage, "forgive, but don't forget."

Pretty much everything is broken by the end of S4, in a way I find very interesting, so I'm probably more into this season than you anyway!

Yeah, basically three things got me through season four--Paul Darrow's smile, Steven Pacey's curls, and the promise of a second Tanith Lee episode. I'm probably more pleased than I should be to have learned on Tumblr, once I started looking for art over there, that "Sand" was Jacqueline Pearce's favorite episode.

As far as I know, the only character who was killed off for impact rather than because the actor couldn't or wouldn't come back was Gan... Everything else was about practicality, really.

I think you're letting TPTB off lightly putting Blake's death on Gareth Thomas rather than them. Sure he insisted he'd only come back if they killed him, but they are the ones that wanted Blake back so badly that they agreed to bring him back just to kill him off. That death was still one of their choosing. It's not like their writing Jenna or Cally out because the actresses didn't come back. I'm frankly more offended by their casually killing Jenna off with a few lines from Blake than I am by their bringing Blake back just to kill him off, but the difference is it's easier to ignore a few lines from Blake than his bloody on camera death. Nice thing about his death being bloody is that it highlights how the active regulars don't show any outward signs of injury when they're zapped by the federation forces they just fall down.

ETA: Fanvids - Zukalis has made loads and a lot of them are good.

Wow! I'll have a lot of fun going through all that!!

And, ha, thank!! - B7 fandom has a tradition of Inappropriate Song vids

You're welcome! Good to know. I may like the fandom just as much as the show. Inappropriate Song vids are something I enjoy. ;-)

[thisbluespirit]

Thank you so much for your help finally getting into B7!

My pleasure! ♥

I think you're letting TPTB off lightly

I'm not letting them off lightly - I don't think there's anything to 'let them off' for in that particular regard, for me: I like S4 overall, quite a lot, and I think what happens with Avon & Blake is kind of perfect, I think Jenna's death sounds very like her, and I love the tragic ending. It feels very Shakespearean and also right with their terrible universe. I enjoy fanfic fixits, too, though, so tragic canon is often the best of both worlds for me. In the right canon, of course! I wouldn't want this in DW or something else that's much lighter. I enjoyed the ending very much; it makes me cry every time and I love it. I'm just sadistic like that with fiction sometimes. I understand other people might not like it, and that's fine, but I do.

(I have one flister who only likes S4! It takes all sorts. ;-p)

Ooo, she does make lovely icons! I've taken one for each of my favorite B7 characters for now.

Yay, I'm glad you found some pretties!

I'm probably more pleased than I should be to have learned on Tumblr, once I started looking for art over there, that "Sand" was Jacqueline Pearce's favorite episode.

It is a good one! Not everyone likes it (as ever with fandom, lol), but I love it. I love having Tanith Lee's weirdness in the show. It's a grim universe, but it's also got some room for some very strange, alien things in the corners.

You're welcome! Good to know. I may like the fandom just as much as the show. Inappropriate Song vids are something I enjoy.

The current fandom on tumblr seems very sweet - and definitely very talented in the art department, so I hope you found some good things.

[beccadg]

I'm not letting them off lightly - I don't think there's anything to 'let them off' for in that particular regard...

Poor word choice on my part. I should've simply said I don't think it's accurate to categorize Blake's death with Jenna's and Cally's rather than with Gan's. Gareth Thomas couldn't have given TPTB an ultimatum if they hadn't made the ask.

I enjoy fanfic fixits, too, though, so tragic canon is often the best of both worlds for me.

I'm glad you enjoy fanfic fixits too. I am giving the full series a second watch while I try to decide which episodes I like best and least, but I'm positive fourth season is my least favorite season. I don't just dislike it for it's lack of Jenna, Zen, and Cally, or for it's ending on a massive unresolved cliffhanger (even if I think it's obvious watching it that it is just an unresolved cliffhanger, and not a massacre), I dislike it because I don't care for a good deal of the writing fourth season. It isn't just Ben Steed and the finale. "Orbit," once you reminded me of it, is another example of the writing I don't care for fourth season. I love the series, but I don't think it gets better as it goes along.

I have one flister who only likes S4! It takes all sorts. ;-p

Talk about "to each their own." x_x

Yay, I'm glad you found some pretties!

On the one hand it's comforting to have icons for everyone I care about now. On the other hand it makes me wish so much I had my desktop right now. I already have some nice pictures from Tumble of Jenna, Avon, and Tarrant I wish I could be icon'ing. I just have to be patient.

It is a good one!

Yep! I might not have my Top Five Favorite Episodes all filled out yet, but I'm sure it will include both Tanith Lee episodes and Mission to Destiny. MtD and the first Tanith Lee episode make use of Cally and Avon in ways I really enjoy, and of course Sand makes great use of Servalan and Tarrant.

Not everyone likes it (as ever with fandom, lol)...

I can imagine. It not only requires a tolerance for Tanith Lee's writing, but tolerance of both Servalan and Tarrant. While I find the whole "Commissioner Sleer" business fourth season silly, it fortunately isn't an issue in Sand. Tarrant knows she's Servalan and she doesn't waste time insisting he call her Sleer. Tarrant managed to grow on me enough by "Sand" that I was happy to have so much of him in it.

I love having Tanith Lee's weirdness in the show.

I love how perfectly the episodes make the point that as much as the humans in B7 are terrible to each other there is more in the universe than the humans and their issues. Some other episodes touch on it a bit, but I can't think of any that do it as well as Tanith Lee's episodes.

It's a grim universe, but it's also got some room for some very strange, alien things in the corners.

I prefer B7 to Firefly for a couple of different reasons. My parents loooved Firefly, were full Browncoats, but I was never that into it. My big problems were how heavily it leaned into its "western in space" style, and it's total lack of aliens. My favorite of "B7's Children" is Farscape. It doesn't just have aliens, but Muppet aliens done more seriously than Pigs in Space. Not that I don't love Babylon 5 too. It has plenty of aliens as well. It's just much more focused on political intrigues. I love the ragtag found family bouncing around their universe. I know B7 doesn't crack my top 3 favorite sci-fi TV series, but I'm not sure if it might bump B5 out of my top 5. My top 3 remain Doctor Who, Star Wars: Rebels, and Farscape. After that...

The current fandom on tumblr seems very sweet - and definitely very talented in the art department, so I hope you found some good things.

I so have! It's great over there!!

[thisbluespirit]

I love how perfectly the episodes make the point that as much as the humans in B7 are terrible to each other there is more in the universe than the humans and their issues.

Yes, that's it exactly. ♥

I should've simply said I don't think it's accurate to categorize Blake's death with Jenna's and Cally's rather than with Gan's. Gareth Thomas couldn't have given TPTB an ultimatum if they hadn't made the ask.

Idk, I think the question of where Blake was and why he hadn't come back/they hadn't found him had to be answered at some point, and I'd have done the same thing if I were them! Better to have the closure than not, I think.

I already have some nice pictures from Tumble of Jenna, Avon, and Tarrant I wish I could be icon'ing. I just have to be patient.

Aw, I hope you get the chance soon! Oh, and if you're looking for images for icon-making, there's a marvellous resource about - the Blake's 7 Image Library

I know B7 doesn't crack my top 3 favorite sci-fi TV series, but I'm not sure if it might bump B5 out of my top 5. My top 3 remain Doctor Who, Star Wars: Rebels, and Farscape. After that...

Oh, wow, well that is great! And a rewatch already. My work here is definitely done! Heh. XD

[beccadg]

Yes, that's it exactly. ♥

Given the show's limited budget, and it's effort to be a more serious series than Doctor Who it couldn't very well have the variety of silly looking aliens Doctor Who has. It needed to take a different approach to aliens. Part of what makes "Sand" such a great episode is how it manages to make the alien tiny and global at the same time. The alien is the individual grains of sand and the whole planet.

Idk, I think the question of where Blake was and why he hadn't come back/they hadn't found him had to be answered at some point...

It may have, but it no more required the actor's physical presence than Jenna and Blake's survival of the second season finale did, or Jenna's death in the fourth season finale did. The issue isn't whether or not TPTB needed to tie up the question of Blake's place in the show. The issue is whether or not they required Gareth Thomas' physical presence that's the issue. The fact they wrote both Jenna and Cally off without getting the actresses back, not to mention the whole badly cloned Travis business, along with Blake's own survival from the second season finale by word of mouth alone show that they didn't need Gareth Thomas' physical presence to handle Blake. How they handled him was their choice, not the actor's.

...I'd have done the same thing if I were them!

That's just it, if you were TPTB and you insisted on having Gareth Thomas physically there for your handling of Blake's place in the show you'd be in the same place as Terry Nation insisting on Gan's death. It would be a decision by TPTB on how they felt the story needed to be told, not the decision of the actor.

Better to have the closure than not, I think.

Certainly. Frankly, if I'd been TPTB I'd have killed Jenna and Blake off as part of the intergalactic war that the series pretty much skips over between second and third season. I think an intergalactic war is more deserving of some major character death than the mere attempt to strike at the federation that did get Gan killed. Having made the stretch of keeping them both alive instead, they did deserve some follow up. Ultimately I resent that while the whole show isn't Ben Steed misogynistic it is sexist enough that Jenna and Cally die off camera while Gan and Blake get on camera deaths.

Aw, I hope you get the chance soon!

The place I'm going to be moving to won't be ready before February 10th, and I don't know how quickly I'll be able to get the desktop set up after I'm able to move in. I have to be patient.

Oh, and if you're looking for images for icon-making, there's a marvellous resource about - the Blake's 7 Image Library

Wow! That is definitely a rabbit hole I will disappear down for sometime!!

Oh, wow, well that is great! And a rewatch already. My work here is definitely done! Heh. XD

Absolutely! I do wonder a bit how much B7 was influenced by Star Wars. I mean I don't imagine the first season was influenced much since it debuted less than a year after the first Star Wars movie. Like I know K-9 was already in development at Doctor Who before R2D2 was introduced to the world. Just that B7 ran long enough to not only be aware of the first movie, but the second as well. The second came out in 1980 and B7's final season was 1981. I might prefer Doctor Who to Star Wars or Star Trek, but I was raised on all three and the Original Star Wars trilogy and Star Wars: Rebels are very dear to me.

[thisbluespirit]

Just that B7 ran long enough to not only be aware of the first movie, but the second as well.

The Star Wars film came out while they were in production, and they went to see it and were basically horrified because they knew they couldn't match it. (I haven't got the link any more becuse it was on my former tumblr, but one of them (the designer?) was just "Fuck this, David, I'm going home!"

So, yeah. They were aware of it, but I think all they could do was very much be their own thing because that level of SFX was beyond the BBC. They're much more of a reversed Trek, really. But

[beccadg]

The Star Wars film came out while they were in production, and they went to see it and were basically horrified because they knew they couldn't match it.

Ouch. I wouldn't have expected them to try to match a Hollywood production budget. One thing to differentiate yourself from Classic Doctor Who and Classic Star Trek. Something else to try to chase after a Hollywood movie.

I haven't got the link any more because it was on my former tumblr, but one of them (the designer?) was just "Fuck this, David, I'm going home!"

It's all right. You've more than answered the basic question of how aware they were of Star Wars while producing the show.

They're much more of a reversed Trek, really. But

The reversed Star Trek is blatantly obvious from the beginning, not just with their calling their evil authoritarian government a "federation" rather than a dictatorship or empire like Star Wars. The symbol they give their federation is basically the one for the Star Trek federation turned on its side. I think, though, part of why I hate fourth season (and someone else might only like fourth season) is that the series does something of a pivot from Star Trek to Star Wars with the destruction of the Liberator. It isn't just that they go from a larger long distance ship to a smaller freighter operating from a base, though that's part of it, it's also in the AI's of the ships. Zen is more the calm voice of the Enterprise while Slave is more 3PO and his constant worrying about things. I don't just miss Zen's calm voice and Jenna and Cally by fourth season, I miss the freedom of the crew being on a galaxy class ship. It's a different show. Course, I may also giggle inappropriately at how much their guns fourth season look like they bought a bunch of toy versions of Han Solo's blaster and painted them silver. They are so not the more interestingly designed guns from the Liberator.