Talking Meme #1

[thisbluespirit]

Request: Favourite plot twists - jaxomsride (It turns out I'm not doing these in order. Also I see no reason to wait for December, either.)


It's hard to think about favourite plot twists, maybe because it's not the first thing I think of in what I like about something (though don't get me wrong, I love a really great plot twist), but also because I have a tendency to rewatch and re-read things I like a lot, so then it becomes hard to remember the time when the plot twist was surprising instead of inevitable and admired plot work.

Or, in short, I can't guarantee these are my actual favourite plot twists, but they were the ones I came up with this week. I shall try to talk about them without spoilers. If this involves sign language at any point, bear with me.


1. Murder on the Orient Express by Agatha Christie. Her books are so well known, that I think I was spoiled for quite a few of them by the time I read them, or, being the sort of lazy reader who hardly ever tries to work out the murder, maybe I wasn't struck by the others. At any rate, once it became clear what the plot twist was in this one, I was delighted by it, and remain so. I've read at least one other book that used the same twist as The Murder of Roger Ackroyd but I don't think I've ever come across anything with the same solution as Orient Express. (It is something that should be hard to pull off without being ridiculous, which is perhaps why. Or because I haven't read the other books in question, of course.) It's not my favourite Christie, but it is by far my favourite solution to a murder mystery.


2. Listen (Doctor Who). I hesitate to mention this, because I don't want to get into DW discussions, but I thought this was shaped around such a wonderful twist, not just for an episode but because it subverted the expectations of the whole show, especially in terms of New Who and did so beautifully. I know some people are watching this other awful show at the moment, but for me, this was one of the most perfect episodes in a long, long while & largely because of the twist, so I have to include it here.


3. My Life's My Own (Public Eye). It's probably not so much a proper plot twist, in the same way as the two above (but then Public Eye doesn't really work like that), but over halfway through there's a reveal that I completely didn't see coming which not only impressed me in terms of the episode but revised my entire opinion of the series I was watching and what it was capable of. And it was already being a particularly good episode. In addition, there's a twist of viewer expectation in which it looks as though the story is winding down to its close in a particular way - and then it suddenly does so much more with its last five minutes.

Comments

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about 'Listen'. It really was the best of S8 - not that I felt any of the other eps were especially bad - but Listen was just brilliant.

[thisbluespirit]

*nods* I think I'd say the same, yes. And it was all about the twist, but not in a gimmicky way. It was really beautiful, and in a show all about fighting monsters, important in its own way.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Yes!!

(I also, of all S8's eps, absolutely loved Flatine.)

[thisbluespirit]

Oh, yes, Flatline was brilliant. Loved the Mummy one, too, but yep. I really enjoyed this season! :-)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

PCap was absolutely brilliant - and the way he and Jenna fit together SO WELL just made it the best New Who series for me since S3 in terms of Doctor&Companion relationship.

[thisbluespirit]

He has been brilliant, indeed!

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Can we keep him??

[thisbluespirit]

I think we can for a bit! :-)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Goody-goody!

[dimity-blue.livejournal.com]

I love "Murder on the Orient Express"! Like you, it's not my favourite AC book, but it definitely counts as *a* favourite. That whole plot is just so awesome, IMO, and (as you said) it'd be incredibly hard to use without tipping over into silliness.

[thisbluespirit]

*nods* It can't be my favourite of hers because there is no Miss Marple in it! But it is such an unlikely solution, and, yes, in the abstract you'd imagine you could only really get away with it in a comedy & yet it works so well here, too. :-)

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

1. *nods* Yes, that's a good one. And as you say, fairly unique and hard to pull off with a straight face, as it were.

2. I think S8 was overall pretty consistent - from my point of view, there were a couple of weaker ones around the middle rather than a couple of standouts I could single out for praise. I have no idea what series some of the less contented fans were watching, though, reading their responses. Listen was really good, though, not only the twist but the questions it rather spookily didn't feel the need to answer.

3. *Does quick search* Another really good Public Eye episode I haven't seen? (Although that probably applies to most of them apart from the two I actually have seen...)

[thisbluespirit]

It is funny how we all watch different TV, isn't it? My DW is almost always more fun than other people's, so I'm glad I get to watch mine. :-)

And, aargh, you didn't go and look up the PE ep, did you? I have been so careful for a year never to spoiler anyone for that, even given the unlikelihood of any of you ever watching it. Why would you do that? You're a terrible person!! :lol:

(And they're not all good episodes. There is "Mrs Podmore's Cat". That is not a good ep. The cat's not to blame, though. It was the writer.)

[jaxomsride.livejournal.com]

Orient Express is one of my favourite Christies mainly because of the plot twist. Mind you with a lot of Christie's victims it is not so much whodunnit, but who got to him/ her first!

Listen's twists makes is one of my favourites Dr Who episodes too.

[thisbluespirit]

:-D

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Hell yeah! Why wait for December?

Brilliant answers!! And I really did adore 'Listen'. Still have questions about it all - and the ending! Whew!

*HUGS*

[thisbluespirit]

Thank you! And NOvember is much more in need of brightening up than December, so yep. *nods*

[sevanatwonights.livejournal.com]

If anyone hated Listen...I seriously have my doubts about their sanity. Though I prefer Mummy on the Orient Express (would it be much of a twist if the forgotten was actually Danny kept alive by the Master or even worse, the Brigadier? Sounds like something he'd do. And who is Gus anyway? Hmmmm...still don't know that one.) Flatliners was a hell of a ride too! Who were the boneless and what original monsters! They are up there with the Mara in my book (which is high indeed). The Caretaker was a hilarious. I enjoyed everyone one of them really outside of Forest of the Night (which was a retelling of the poem Doctor Who style IMHO) and Robots...oh heck the whole series was great except for the 'three' which sucked the wind out of my sails.

[thisbluespirit]

I've enjoyed this series a lot, too. Mind, everybody likes different things, and some people really don't like Steven Moffat's writing style - I do, but each to their own. I'm sure there are people who would equally wonder how anyone could like it & we're all most likely of sound mind. As I've said above, it's almost as if sometimes we each watch completely different TV shows! (Mine is fun, though. I love it. :-D)

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Yay, Christie! ♥♥♥ Indeed, the Orient Express's solution was just sheer genius. She really has such great twists, but this one is especially fantastic.

The Listen twist was pretty clever and neat, indeed. I've had mixed feelings over the past season, and as you said, we all see things and react to them differently—but that worked quite nicely!

*hugs* ♥

[thisbluespirit]

Heh, everybody seems to like the Orient Express twist! It must be the awesomest. :-)

I@ve ve much enjoyed S8; it felt v strong overall & Listen was a particular highlight for a lot of reasons. But then I also seemed to have enjoyed S7 more than most. I'm easily pleased??

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Definitely! I wouldn't say it was my favourite, but I really admire the thinking behind it—pretty genius.

Being easily pleased is very good! Doesn't mean you have no critical spirit, just that you're still able to sit back and enjoy things because you love the show. Believe me, at times I've wished I could just relax a bit about the whole thing ;) I guess that some of Moffat's writing habits were really starting to wear on me. Matter of taste. But I really quite enjoyed the second half of the season—it was mostly the first half I felt iffy about. Maybe I'll feel better about those eps when I rewatch at some point. Well, that requires finding the time for rewatching of course… ;)

(I also quite enjoyed s7 b—mostly I was really, really fond of Clara at that time, whereas lots of people seemed to find her bland. I just didn't feel that way at all. I still like her a lot after s8 but she's no longer giving Donna competition when it comes to favourites ;))

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

If you don't want to get into DW discussions, I hope you don't mind one that mostly consists of "I love Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, I actually relate to and understand the character himself and why he might act like an ass, and I'm hanging out in a corner of fandom with the Capaldi fans, because they're probably the only ones whose opinions I care about at this point." Hah! I loved "Listen." I think the one that worked the least for me was "In the Forest of the Night," but it was worth watching for Capaldi (including the scene where the Doctor just gave a sequence of dubious expressions in lieu of dialogue, which was great fun to watch, and his interaction with Clara, such as that incredibly sad look of possibly understanding when she told him she didn't want to survive as the last of her kind).

OTOH, I hate the psychological state that S8 left the Doctor in, but I'd suspected all along it would do that, so wasn't surprised, but still annoyed that we have to wait for the Christmas special or S9 for any resolution or improvement. :-/

[thisbluespirit]

I don't mind people saying how much they liked it. I'm just not always sure how good I am at more critical discussions just yet. :-)

And you like Peter Capaldi? I WOULD NEVER HAVE GUESSED! ;-p

He is pretty awesome and I hope that you continue to get such pleasure out of him and his performance!

[dweomeroflight.livejournal.com]

Love Christie and MOTOE is very clever. For me, Endless Night took the cake for plot twist that stuck in my head. I read the novel at an impressionable age and have never forgotten it.

Re Listen - I was telling my friends on fb my New Doc Who series theory, which is that on average, roughly 50% is mediocre and silly to downright awful with the other 40% damn good fun and clever and the last 10% so groundbreaking you remember why it's the greatest show ever. For me, listen and dark water were the 10% this season, though flatline runs it close.

[thisbluespirit]

on average, roughly 50% is mediocre and silly to downright awful with the other 40% damn good fun and clever and the last 10% so groundbreaking you remember why it's the greatest show ever.

That's probably true of it always, really. :-)

[swordznsorcery.livejournal.com]

What a great question! I do love a good plot twist, but it has to be done well. There's been a trend in recent cinema for twisting for the hell of it, which does tend to defy logic. Also, film reviewers always say "Look out for the great twist!" which ruins it before you've even begun...

But yes, a nice little something unexpected. They were good at that in Christie's day, weren't they. I'm more a fan of Allingham than Christie herself. Campion had some nice little unexpected moments, though I'm struggling to think of any definite twists, as such.

It's nice to see somebody not list "The Usual Suspects" for a change! I loved that film, but I thought the twist ruined it. Maybe I'm just weird.

[thisbluespirit]

Heh, I have never watched The Usual Suspects! So, I don't know whether the twist would have predictably made my list or not, but I can't take any special credit for that. ;-)

I need to re-read a lot of the Allinghams. I don't really recall them being about plot twists like the Agatha Christies, though, but I mean, that was her forte, and then people like Allingham, or Ngaio Marsh, who's probably my favourite, did generally more rounded novels.

Also, film reviewers always say "Look out for the great twist!" which ruins it before you've even begun...

Doubly so if they're bluffing and there isn't one. :-)