Beyond the Roundels

For the Talking Meme, from hamsterwoman: How about something about Discworld? Favorite characters, favorite books, your history with the series, whatever you want to talk about, really.

Starting backwards (but not), my history with the series - well, given that I managed to start on Doctor Who with Silver Nemesis, I continued that trend by starting Discworld with Eric, the first one I randomly picked up in the YA section at the library. I think I had also been reading the Nomes trilogy, so gave it a whirl on that basis. (There was, I seem to recall, a Nomes adaptation on CITV around this time.) It wasn't the best place to start, but I liked it enough to try the next one I came across, and that was it, really. I think probably I met the Witches or Death next (I'm pretty sure it was longer before I stumbled over a Watch book).

Favourite characters? Probably Granny Weatherwax, the witches generally, and Death. And Vimes. But I am pretty sure Granny Weatherwax and Death were the ones I first latched onto. And Granny really is the best (just so she won't be the worst). My favourite moment for her is probably where she Weatherwaxes the vampires, but there are so many, for all of them. And Discworld is one of the few things where Death's appearances are always welcome. I was very annoyed on finding a new one if Death only appeared once in passing. (At least twice, please, Pterry; preferably more.)

As to favourite books, I've always had a soft spot for some of the one-offs, and particularly The Truth. I'm not sure if I could even say why - maybe because it's even more overtly about the power of words and truth and lies ("A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on.") than usual, as well, of course, as being a tale of amusingly shaped vegetables and Discworld screwball comedy. (My only long-ish straight-up Discworld fic is an NYR William/Sacharissa fic that was the very last thing I did before I was ill.) And Otto and the terrible lure of flash photography for a vampire; a passion worth undying for every time.

In other things about Discworld, I think I grew up next to the model for the River Ankh* (otherwise known as the River Parrett in Somerset. (My home town, ladies and gentlemen and others, and its charmingly brown river. It's silt, I promise. It looks even better when it comes out at Burnham-on-Sea and you have blue sky (if you're lucky) and brown sea, but let's not get started on Burnham-on-Sea again.)

Also once in rl, I stood this near to Terry Pratchett. *holds out arms* He looked just like his pictures and had the hat. (It was the Carnegie & Kate Greenaway Award ceremony and he was a guest as a previous winner, but he was already under siege from teenage CKG shadowing groups.)

I don't know what else I have to say, except that I'm glad we had Pterry for a while and that we still have all the books with their mix of wit, wisdom, anger, compassion and puns, and all the characters who inhabit them. I found out that Pterry had Alzheimer's one December in York when I was meeting my two sisters (from London) to go Christmas shopping together. Over lunch, they told me they'd heard it on the news. And then stared at me in surprise to find I was actually upset and got worried about me.


I wanted to end with some quotes, and had no idea how you'd narrow it down, so I went for a few from The Truth (and then one from Hogfather I couldn't leave off):

William wondered why he always disliked people who said 'no offense meant.' Maybe it was because they found it easier to to say 'no offense meant' than actually to refrain from giving offense.

“Ah," said Mr Pin. "Right. I remember. You are concerned citizens." He knew about concerned citizens. Wherever they were, they all spoke the same private language, where 'traditional values' meant 'hang someone'.

Just for a moment there was an unusual feeling of bliss. Strange word, he thought. It's one of those words that described something that does not make a noise but if it did make a noise would sound just like that. Bliss. It's like the sound of a soft meringue melting gently on a warm plate.

Nothing has to be true forever. Just for long enough.

“Character assassination. What a wonderful idea. Ordinary assassination only works once, but this one works every day.”

And from Hogfather:

( You're saying humans need fantasies to make life bearable )


* Obviously, it owes a lot to the state of the Thames before Bazalgette, but for rl modern models in a county Pterry lived in, I give you my brown river...

For the Talking Meme: elen_nare asked: Which fictional universe(s) would you most like to live in?

I'm fascinated by the Blake's 7 universe maybe more than all my other fictional universes, but I certainly would not want to live in it. So, out of the things that immediately came to mind, I decided that the Once Upon a Time universe would be a good one. I mean, yes, it's full of villains and ogres and dragons, but as far as I can see, if you live in Storybrooke as a minor character, you get to watch the heroes chase the dragons down the High Street while you just carry on making a Heritage Trail and assume that it will all be okay in the end, because it generally is. (It is a universe where goodness actually does pay. I'm not sure I know any others.)

Since Belle seems to be doing two jobs at once, I'm sure I could get a job as children's/assistant librarian without much trouble (and it's not even as if there's a dragon in the cellar any more), although I suspect presenting budget requests to the Mayor would be an ordeal, no matter how reformed she is these days. I'm not sure how book ordering would work, either, and they don't seem to have had any software updates anywhere in the town since about 1995, but every job has its little hang-ups. And I bet Snow would be amenable to school visits to the library, which is always a plus.

But importantly, if I'm going to live in another universe, it should be one where there's magic and they can make me better. Magic always comes with a price, but healing magic seems to be definitely in the good category in general, so I think it would be worth the risk.

And apart from the obligatory yearly Curse and related amnesia, it's a protected little bubble of a place to live in - and if I don't like it, I can get to any other fictional universe I want from there! All I need is a magic bean, or an airship, or a mermaid, or a pirate ship, or that Fairy Bus To/From the Land With No Magic. (It's really easy, as long as you're not Rumplestiltskin.)

I'm not sure what would happen if I carelessly wrote fic while I was there, though. I might need to chat to Henry before I finalise any arrangements to move in...

(I found this lurking unposted on my Dreamwidth. I wrote it on April 1st; I don't know why I didn't post it. I suppose a Talking Meme would be no fun if it didn't take me all year to get through it!)

For the Talking Meme, from dimity_blue: What are your favourite Dumas film adaptations?


I thought this was pretty funny for a minute, as I have only ever actually watched one Dumas film adaptation, and then I eventually remembered that I have in fact seen the 2011 Three Musketeers as well. I suppose I could also count the endless 1980s cartoon version, Dogtanian and the Muskehounds, but it's obvious that there's no competition here. Also I've never seen a Dumas film that isn't The Three Musketeers, so it's really not as if I'm an expert.

Anyway, my favouite out of this *cough* wide line-up is clearly the 1970s Richard Lester films. When I saw them first, I'd just read the unabridged English translation instead of the cartoon and the abridged Puffin version and decided it was one of my favourite things ever after all and that I would never watch an adaptation because no adaptation would get the tongue-in-cheek attitude of the book, and then my Dad made me watch this and while it alters some things, it does indeed get the tongue-in-cheek attitude of the book exactly right, and the cast are hard to beat: Michael Yorke, Richard Chamberlain, Faye Dunaway, Oliver Reed, Racquel Welch, Roy Kinnear, Spike Milligan, Christopher Lee and Charlton Heston.

( Cut for graphic )

I have some quibbles about some things, maybe, and obviously it would have been nice if the director had actually paid the actors for two films instead of one, but it still wins easily out of all the three and a bit Three Musketeers adaptations I have seen.

For the Talking Meme, from st_aurafina: Do you remember the moment when you learned Doctor Who was coming back? How did you think it would go? Were your hopes/fears realised?

This is a funny one, because I never really believed Doctor Who wasn't coming back one day. Also, as I've been a fan since 1988, it's complicated.

So... ( The fifteen year tale of how Doctor Who was always coming back )

I went very low again over the last few days, so sorry if I have (once more) been ignoring people. I feel (hopefully) a little better again and can now go on as usual with working on being a little less ill!

Anyway, I saw the Talking Meme has been going round again and it's been a while. So, give me a topic to talk about and I promise to try and post about it sometime in the near future. (I don't do monthly dates.)

If you want to avoid things I've answered before, I have a Talking Meme Tag you can check. (By and large, asking me how I feel about lemons or brazil nuts gets short answers, I don't do many travel questions or anything I feel is too personal, otherwise have at it!) I have a bunch of new people, so it seems like a good thing to do now.

( Cut for list of topics )

liadtbunny asked: What would you recommend as a good, amiable fantasy or not very sci-fi sci-fi novel?

Now, I am so out of date on reading generally, let alone SF and Fantasy, that it would be laughable if I even tried to answer this question. However, I am pretty sure that you, my marvellous, book-loving flist will be able to, and with ease!

So, people... what do you reckon would be good? Prove to me that my confidence in you all is not mistaken and find Liadt some splendidly amiable genre reading matter!

Thank you! ♥


(And, Liadt, I know you said you'd heard of Terry Pratchett and that sounded as if you didn't want him recced, but seriously: Guards! Guards! - no silly fantasy names, a parody of all the detective/noir stories and with bonus dragons. I mean, it might as well have your name on it. Beyond that, I'm mostly highly out of date or stuck in the YA section as of five years ago.)

From evelyn_b: Recommend something with one of your favorite actors in it for an old-TV newbie (me).

Well, I gave this matter about two seconds of consideration before I knew there was only one answer. I know that evelyn_b has been enjoying everything she's seen of Doctor Who so far - and also likes I, Claudius (and Julius Caesar?), so what else could I say but...

Blake's 7 (BBC 1978-81)

I once wrote a non-spoilery introduction post that may help (because if you Google B7 or look at anything to do with it, you will be majorly spoiled), but in short, it is not exactly I, Claudius in space, but if you sort of took that, a Shakespearean tragedy (especially Julius Caesar), 1984, Doctor Who, Robin Hood and a whole lot of snark and cardboard spaceships and 70s glam rock in space costumes and shook it up in a bag, you might just get something like Blake's 7.

In terms of actors I like, it has David Collings in the last episode, and I like all the regulars and am very pleased to catch them in other old TV.

It is unofficially/semi-officially connected to Doctor Who, mainly because so many people worked on both shows in the 70s, from Terry Nation (B7's creator, and creator of the Daleks) to various actors, set designers, directors, the producer, the script editor Chris Boucher (who also wrote Robots of Death, one of my fave DW eps, which also features David Collings & is Agatha Christie/Isaac Asimov-inspired) to some of the props. (And then in the 80s, DW borrowed some B7 props back, so there's one scene in a Seventh Doctor story where people are wearing Avon and Servalan's costumes.) Some corners of the Doctor Who Extended Universe cross the two officially.

You should pop over to my other post here, but basically, it is the anti-Star Trek, it could win the universe snarking competition by a mile, it has fanfic tropes for real, and despite all the reasons that it shouldn't work, it does, and it's amazing and enjoyable and bleak and heart-breaking and ridiculous all at the same time & almost every single character is interesting, from that guard on the left to our heroes (and our villains).

It also, btw, has the best/worst costumes and the very worst SFX! (Classic Who has nothing on Blake's 7. In any argument about which show has most delightfully terrible SFX, B7 is already the winner.)

Anyway, it is a thing! It's definitely worth taking in at some point during your Doctor Who tour. It's like the 1970s Torchwood, only if Torchwood weren't awful. (Sorry, Torchwood, I'm just never going to like you much; I think we'll both have to accept that. And anyway, obv. Torchwood could never be as good as B7. That would be silly.)

S1 is slow, although it still has fabulous costumes and snark, but if you get fed up, you can probably get by with eps 1-3, 6 and 12-13, before going onto S2, where the pace picks up rapidly. The big downside is that for complicated reasons, it's not out on DVD in Region 1, but YouTube/Dailymotion searching usually coughs up the eps. (At the moment, it's here, but the same copyright people are quite dedicated to taking it down again.)


The other thing I could rec here is obviously Sapphire and Steel, (ITV 1979-1981) which is one of the most amazing bits of old British SF ever made. It embraces its slowness and cheapness and makes a virtue of it, and spent all its money on its stars, which was a good decision, as they got Joanna Lumley and David McCallum. David Collings features in two of the "Assignments" as Silver, and it's a very good part to see him in.

S&S is a show about mysterious creepy things going wrong with time because humans have been playing with dangerous things like clocks and nursery rhymes and photographs and flowers and railway stations (and, worst of all, motorway service stations). Sapphire and Steel are mysterious beings who come along and sort these things out. They're not human, but we don't know what they are, except seriously cool, telepathic, and very beautiful and that they like standing about looking alarmed at stuff before dealing with it by being nearly as scary as the scary stuff. They call themselves Elements, but neither Sapphire nor Steel is actually an element anyway, so who knows? As a TV Guide once put it: "There are many ways of keeping an audience's attention - total lack of explanation is not supposed to be one of them."

It is a weird gem of SF and it is seriously mind-blowing and awesome. Once you get accustomed to the fact that nobody and nothing will ever move quickly in it, it gets really addictive. (I was once vidding it and thought my software had frozen but it was just Sapphire and Steel standing very still while looking mildly alarmed and beautiful again.) The fic for it is also weird and beautiful and wonderful and everybody does it slightly differently, because nobody knows what any of it means.

(I was going to link to eponymous_rose's brilliant guide, but it is now locked, tragically, because it was the best intro to S&S. Have this fanvid I made ages ago. It isn't a good substitute, but despite me being a newbie vidder and too ill to get the aspect ratio right (I know! eek!), it's still a good intro to what the show is.)

The length is only the equivalent of six Classic Who serials, or "Assignments" as they're known in S&S, and a few people have all of them up on YouTube, (e.g. here but the DVDs are also out pretty much everywhere, too). Assignment One is particularly slow and still has a lot of trappings of its original concept as a children's show (before somebody changed their minds and turned it into more general teatime tales of terror).

There are apparently currently plans to remake it which is intriguing but also terrifying, because is modern TV brave enough to forego any explanations whatsoever? Can they find anybody as good as Joanna Lumley and David McCallum? How will I ever cope if somebody else is Silver? The thought is scarier than an evil pillow*.

But at least not as bad as the idea of the B7 remake, which we have to hope will never happen. (Or better still, a pilot/1 series happens and is awful and cancelled BUT intrigues some new fans. Sounds like a cunning plan?)


(I'm sorry if I'm reccing too strongly, but while I'm apologetic about some of my stranger old TV loves, I am never going apologise for loving these two. Even if they're possibly the strangest of all. They won't work for everyone, but they're good enough & influential in the SF field to be well worth trying for anybody interested in either SF/fantasy or old British telly.)

* It is important to note that while S&S doesn't even try to compete in the silly SFX stakes, it does have one truly amazing category winner in Assignment Three's evil pillow. If I didn't want to get this posted now, I would go look for my pic of Steel glaring at said evil pillow.

I've had a few answers for this meme done or semi-done for a while, so it's about time I posted one, and here goes - From femme_slash_fan: Favourite TV shows almost nobody knows about and should watch? (Seriously... I need more stuff)

Shows that nobody else knows about seems to sum up my entire fannish life of late (and always, really), but since femme_slash_fan specified "and should watch", that's a whole other thing. I have plenty of strange things I love - I don't necessarily think anyone else should have to watch them!

I avoided anything with its own (reasonably active) fandom, like Blake's 7, Sapphire & Steel and The Avengers (obviously, people have heard of them, if they're being fannish about them), and anything I thought was too inaccessible to count as something people should watch. What counts as something 'nobody's heard of' is so relative anyway. (Some of these things really don't count if you're British but do count if you live anywhere else. What can I do?). Of course, much of it assumes some willingness to watch studio-bound, video-taped old British TV of some kind, which I know not everyone is up for. If you are, or you're willing to try, these aren't bad places to start.

Anyway, here's a list! Not in any particular order, really. (I numbered them so I would know to stop if I went over ten, because that would be silly.)


( Under here for the list!! )

First, something I should have added to my first post of the day (sorry about the spammage!), but aralias took some B7 prompts and wrote a collection of fic for Gauda Prime Day, all of them not allowed to be focused on Blake/Avon. The fics all seem pretty awesome and include a great Tarrant/Dayna one for me. (Not the only Tarrant/Dayna in the set, either!)


And so, one more post for today - another meme post, this time: Why not tell us more about the three musketeers, or you could talk about the NAs? for aralias


The Three Musketeers! I'm not sure whether aralias meant just the Richard Lester film(s), but let's talk about the Musketeers generally, why not?

( The Three Musketeers )

Request: Favourite plot twists - jaxomsride (It turns out I'm not doing these in order. Also I see no reason to wait for December, either.)


It's hard to think about favourite plot twists, maybe because it's not the first thing I think of in what I like about something (though don't get me wrong, I love a really great plot twist), but also because I have a tendency to rewatch and re-read things I like a lot, so then it becomes hard to remember the time when the plot twist was surprising instead of inevitable and admired plot work.

Or, in short, I can't guarantee these are my actual favourite plot twists, but they were the ones I came up with this week. I shall try to talk about them without spoilers. If this involves sign language at any point, bear with me.


1. Murder on the Orient Express by Agatha Christie. Her books are so well known, that I think I was spoiled for quite a few of them by the time I read them, or, being the sort of lazy reader who hardly ever tries to work out the murder, maybe I wasn't struck by the others. At any rate, once it became clear what the plot twist was in this one, I was delighted by it, and remain so. I've read at least one other book that used the same twist as The Murder of Roger Ackroyd but I don't think I've ever come across anything with the same solution as Orient Express. (It is something that should be hard to pull off without being ridiculous, which is perhaps why. Or because I haven't read the other books in question, of course.) It's not my favourite Christie, but it is by far my favourite solution to a murder mystery.


2. Listen (Doctor Who). I hesitate to mention this, because I don't want to get into DW discussions, but I thought this was shaped around such a wonderful twist, not just for an episode but because it subverted the expectations of the whole show, especially in terms of New Who and did so beautifully. I know some people are watching this other awful show at the moment, but for me, this was one of the most perfect episodes in a long, long while & largely because of the twist, so I have to include it here.


3. My Life's My Own (Public Eye). It's probably not so much a proper plot twist, in the same way as the two above (but then Public Eye doesn't really work like that), but over halfway through there's a reveal that I completely didn't see coming which not only impressed me in terms of the episode but revised my entire opinion of the series I was watching and what it was capable of. And it was already being a particularly good episode. In addition, there's a twist of viewer expectation in which it looks as though the story is winding down to its close in a particular way - and then it suddenly does so much more with its last five minutes.

Sorry, this has taken me so long to do! It seems set to be the whenever-Talking Meme, so if somebody still wanted to leave a topic, go ahead! :-)

And the last shall be first... I haven't done the one with dates, so I'm going to leap in with the last topic given me (from daybreak777, but also briefly with one of the very first topic from oonaseckar), so:

1. Brazil nuts

I think these may be the one kind of nut that I like that isn't a peanut or an almond, but I can never remember, so am reluctant to try and find out. (Inconveniently, I don't like other nuts at all.) Which is all I have to say on the subject of Brazil nuts, unless I do research. :-)

So, from daybreak777: You seem to like memes. In your LJ existence, what has been your most fun meme to participate in and why?

I do like memes! Not so much the ones with all the intrusive personal questions, but I do have a soft spot for a good fannish/creative writing meme. Or a suitably ridiculous one. The former have led me to write all sorts I would never have done so otherwise (including those for the "ficlets I would never write meme"). I was going to say that there is one meme that towers above all these as far as I'm concerned - one meme to rule them all, and in the... no - but, actually there are some other contenders.

So, first - memes I enjoy either simply make me laugh, make me think about shows, characters and fandoms in new ways (and especially in reading other people's results), get me to write new and unexpected things and brighten up LJ when it's being tired. I love them. Prompts, jokes, unexpected pairings, random meta, discussion with my ever-surprising, brilliant and evil flist and all that. I wouldn't want to own up to how amused I am by some of the silliest/simplest. *looks shifty* (My sense of humour is not all that sophisticated, and small things please small minds.)

For me, I'm less interested in memes involving personal questions, love memes (go away, I'm British!), and anything relating more to rl (unless I am; I reserve the right to be hypocritical when I choose), and any "you are x" if the process takes half an hour. But I'm often happy to read other people's entries for those things. Each to their own, especially in journalling...

So, without doing an exhaustive check of my tags, here are the three that spring to mind:

3. The Crossover meme: Give me two characters from different fandoms you know I'm familiar with, and I'll give you a dialogue happening between the two of them. Without justifying how the crossover would work, how their worlds clashed or how they could even meet each other. Just a silly crossover conversation with no backstory, for fun.

I've done this twice. Each time the resulting prompts have been unexpected and a lot of fun to do, and I think this was the point where I went down the path of multifannishness, from which there is no returning. (I regret nothing, except lack of readers in the quieter avenues and cul-de-sacs).

2. isurrendered: The meme that ate Manhattan, as they called it... 1. Comment to this post with "I surrender!" and I'll assign you the basis of some TV show idea. (Science fiction show, medical drama, criminal procedure, etc...)
2. Create a cast of characters, including the actors who'd play them.
3. Add in any actor photos, character bios and show synopsis that you want.
4. Post to your own journal.

I really have mixed feelings at placing this one second, because it is the most dangerous, creative and virulent meme I've ever been involved in. And I'm not the only one. If you haven't encountered it before, the fictional TV shows that turned up varied, but there were some amazing ideas. Do explore the comm; it's pretty incredible. (I recommend Mammoth Season, Murder in the Library and many others that I've forgotten since that year.)

I think about doing this again some time, but it's not as if I've entirely got my brain back since the last time: I can never forget about Enigma House, or Cloak and Dagger. (There was a third, but I knew the story for that so well in my head I didn't write it down. Which is probably as well for the state of my brain, because, of course, I've forgotten most of it now.)

I'd also always thought prior to this that "casting" characters was a bit of an odd thing to do; I learned during the process that it can sometimes be really useful in original writing. Anyway, I Surrendered is wonderful, but if you try it - be warned... Still, at least there's a comm to share the insanity. (It's still mildly active, if not what it was in the first flurry of fake shows.)


1. Fifteen Characters Meme: 1) Make a list of fifteen characters first, and keep it to yourself for the moment.

2) Ask your f-list to post questions in the comments. For example: "One, nine, and fifteen are chosen by a prophecy to save the world from four. Do they succeed?", "Under what circumstances might five and fourteen fall in love?", "Which character on the list would you most want on your side in a zombie invasion?"

3) After your f-list has stopped asking questions, round them up and answer them using the fifteen characters you selected beforehand, then post them.

It probably says far too much about me that this daft meme is my favourite and never fails to make me weep with laughter at some point in the proceedings. I haven't done it for a while, either. I should probably go off and make a list of 15 characters right now, shouldn't I?



Memes: anything creative/funny/fannish and I usually enjoy it one way or another, even if it's only reading everyone else's entries when I don't have the brain for it myself, but, yes, I do love those sorts of memes. And this one, of course. Even if I have little to say about Brazil nuts.