30 Days of Telly Meme - Days 10 & 11

[thisbluespirit]

I'm still catching up and these days go together naturally, both in terms of the questions and that they're both shows I like/liked and have never mentioned here. Mostly because I dislike fannish debates and I suspect both could easily set them off. So be nice, I can't help my bad taste, or whatever it is...

Day 10 - A show you thought you wouldn't like but ended up loving:
Star Trek: Voyager. Not that I thought I’d hate it or anything, but I’ve always been a bit take it or leave it with Star Trek. I mean, it’s fine, but they all seem a bit over-earnest (yes, I’m a flippant Who-fan) and I don’t buy a future where human nature has actually improved much. (See B7 for what’s got to be really going on with the Federation. Tranquilised dreams, I tell you. I’m a cynic about some things). And then my friend made me watch this and I got hooked, completely. They had a Captain who was not only female (and short, clever, and bossy... :-D) but hadn’t had her sense of humour removed, plus Tuvoc, Tom and B’Elanna and the Doctor (Hmm. Now, where did that name come from? :lol:) And my other problem with ST:TNG was when I realised that every so often they popped back home, which seemed wrong to me after all that stuff about the final frontier, so that was remedied by the idea of being lost light years from earth. Also the two opposing crews idea is one that has a bit of potential, even if not used much. It’s The Odyssy, only Janeway doesn't have much luck with either Penelope, and would probably agree with Anne Eliott on the subject of love. I watched all the episodes in the wrong order, (which may have helped) but I liked it. And I even forgive Neelix for being Snarf out of Thundercats, if only for summing up ST early on: “Oh, we’ve got a nice spaceship, now let’s find a space anomaly to throw it at and get everybody killed!” (I paraphrase.)

And this is my problem with Star Trek all over, because I've since gathered that this is the Uncool one you’re not supposed to like. And, yep, this is the one I really enjoyed. (Apart from the ending. Sort of.) Mind you, it also has the best comedy fanvids. I already recced the Internet is for Pr0n one, so have this: Popular.

Day 11 - A show that disappointed you: Heroes

I liked it. It wasn’t perfect but it was different, it had interesting characters, a great premise, and a good cast, the graphic novel connection being used in all sorts of ways (especially Isaac’s drawings, as a visual aspect) and a real sense that it knew where it was going. And while S2 was slow, (with dodgy accents), I’d rather they’d had the guts to keep on to wherever it was they were going, instead of the sudden madness and loss of direction that happened after. Miss an episode and everyone had changed sides, or started dating someone random and Matt was back with a tortoise. (And, please, who was looking after Molly at that point?) But I suppose with US TV and the ratings, that would have been it if they hadn’t. So I lost track of it, and it still saddens me a little, cos every now and then I wonder what happened to people, especially Matt and Hiro. (Don’t tell me, because one day I might decide to get S4 or something, if it gets very cheap). Ah well. There’s always Doctor Who!

I need to work out exactly how far I'm behind with this meme now!


Days of Telly Meme:
Day 01 - A show that should never have been cancelled: Blake's 7
Day 02 - A show that you wish more people were watching: Spooks
Day 03 - Your favorite new show (aired this TV season): The West Wing
Day 04 - Your favorite show ever: Doctor Who
Day 05 - A show you hate: Big Brother/ Who Wants to be a millionaire?
Day 06 - Favorite episode of your favorite TV show: Robots of Death / Ghostlight
Day 07 - Least favorite episode of your favorite TV show: 42.
Day 08 - A show everyone should watch: Life on Mars
Day 09 - Best scene ever: DW - Ghostlight "I can't stand burnt toast."
Day 10 - A show you thought you wouldn't like but ended up loving: Star Trek Voyager
Day 11 - A show that disappointed you: Heroes
Day 12 - An episode you've watched more than 5 times
Day 13 - Favorite childhood show
Day 14 - Favorite male character
Day 15 - Favorite female character
Day 16 - Your guilty pleasure show
Day 17 - Favorite mini series: BBC North & South
Day 18 - Favorite title sequence
Day 19 - Best TV show cast
Day 20 - Favorite kiss
Day 21 - Favorite ship
Day 22 - Favorite series finale
Day 23 - Most annoying character
Day 24 - Best quote
Day 25 - A show you plan on watching (old or new)
Day 26 - OMG WTF? Season finale
Day 27 - Best pilot episode
Day 28 - First TV show obsession
Day 29 - Current TV show obsession
Day 30 - Saddest character death

Comments

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I prefer DS9 to Voyager, but I like TNG, DS9 and Voyager so I'm easily pleased...

Not seen Heroes. Can't be arsed!

[thisbluespirit]

DS9 is the only one I've never really seen at all - who knows, I might prefer that, too, but my friend I share the house with liked TOS (although she never watches those now), TNG (her fave), Voyager and Enterprise. I just instantly liked the characters, because they seemed much more human than ST characters usually do - on my brief acquaintance with them, anyway. I'm pretty sure, knowing me, that if I took the time, I would probably enjoy the rest, too... but that's a lot of time and I have other things to watch first. :-)

And that won't make you want to watch Heroes, either, will it? :lol: No oppression for once! Heh. Though, the first season was amazing, I have to say. And Hiro Nakamura is one of the best characters in anything, so I'm glad I did stick with it for a bit, because I wouldn't like not to have met him, but when you miss one episode and it feels like 20 at least, it gets a bit much! I kept having conversations with my Dad, who tried to explain what had happened, with me going, "But he can't be going out with her!" and "No, I'm sorry, but Y wouldn't turn evil... and when did X turn good again?" and "Why has Matt got a tortoise?" But in the unlikely event that it ever fell into your lap somehow, I'd certainly recommend S1, as something out of the usual run of TV shows.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Well DS9 is usually referred to as the 'dark' franchise. It'd probably appeal more to your cynical view of the future than TNG. It has one of the single best episodes of TV ever - Far Beyond the Stars - which is the only episode I really remember years after watching it (I've tended no to rewatch Trek obsessively).

To my utter surprise, the library has Heroes S1 (the availability of genre TV is very hit and miss in the Oxfordshire library system, unless it's Doctor Who!) - maybe later in the summer, when I've got my scifibigbang story written, I'll give it a go.

[pitry.livejournal.com]

I LOVE Far Beyond the Stars! I also remembered this one for years! (although I also remembered others.)

I think it also has one of the best anti-heros I've ever seen in television - Garak is just such a fantastic character!

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I think Far Beyond the Stars is what RTD wanted to write when he did Turn Left. Needless to say, DS9 did it better!

Oh yes, Garak is endlessly fascinating...

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Hmmm - I don't know - I see them as completely different things.

Turn Left says "careful! This is where we're heading!". Far Beyond The Stars is actually about where we've been - DS9 had a lot of racism allegories, but they couldn't tell a simple Earth bound story about racism against African Americans, so that's how they told it.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I'm talking about the creation of an alternate universe that's primarily focused on the actions of just one person - which is what both FBtS and TL did - and FBtS did it 1000 times better.

[thisbluespirit]

Heh, well, it's one of those things that some people find incredibly dull, but worth a try. I loved the premise, the visuals (the close relationship to graphic novels took those in someintersting directions) and, as I said, Hiro and Matt. And Nathan, really. Except, sadly, you will know it never fulfilled its promise. :-( Bah. (Well, I haven't seen S4, so maybe it got good again.) But Hiro is fun and very sweet. Sylar kills people in a horrible way, though. Be warned.

I'll have to watch out - one of the Freeview Channels (the Virgin one?) keeps re-running ST, so I could see if I could catch it some time, although it would be weird, because my friend is the ST fan, not me! :lol:

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I can only judge it once I've watched it - which I will eventually do. But you've been nagging at me to watch B7 long enough that I'm making that the priority!

[thisbluespirit]

Oh, you can tell from my icons that B7 takes priority!!

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Yes...

[pitry.livejournal.com]

I think you might like DS9. It had a lot of humour in it, and - well I don't know Voyager, so I don't know whether they dealt with it, too - but as far as I know, DS9 is the one that burst Gene Roddenberry's Federation bubble. The Federation in it is often - not the bad guys, but taking the bad-guy shortcuts. Even the captain there has several moments towards the end of "the end justifies the means" and it's actually dealt with in a mature way (and this is all I'm saying in case you decide to watch it! :D)

It also has very likable characters! And it has Ferengi! It actually has good viable working Ferengi characters! AND THEY'RE FUN! (My ultimate ship: Odo/ Quark. It's canon I say!!!! hmm.)

Heroes. I've given up after the first season when I realised Sylar survives. I really liked the first 10-12 episodes or so. Then it all went a bit "erm", and in the second part of the season I only liked about 2-3 episodes, and when that ending showed up, I declared this is the end. My sister claims it got better at some point but she doesn't sound too happy with season 4 either.

[thisbluespirit]

Well, I might - I saw a bit of the episode with the Tribbles in, and I didn't hate that. And Voyager starts off at DS9 before they leave. The thing with Voyager is they're stuck in the Delta Quadrant, so they're the only representation of the Federation. If DS9 is a bit dark, that's probably why my friend doesn't like it! :lol:

Well, Sylar was the sort of baddie who never dies, so that didn't shock me. I think, on reflection, I would take S1 as a complete thing, and while there were slow patches, overall, I thought it was really something new - and it seemed to have a definite plan in mind as to where it was going. Then in S3 they threw that away and did whatever they wanted. Which made it more interesting for a bit, and then got a bit annoying and unlikely. With a tortoise being involved. I suppose you should get points for a random prophetic tortoise, I have to admit. :lol:

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Prophetic tortoise?! But that's Pratchett! Small gods! The great god Om!
(Now this reminds me of Farscape. My favourite episode is Revenging Angel, which is a brilliant episode - but I've always been so completely impressed with the idea of doing the cartoon bit.

And then I watched Annie Hall and realised my favourite bit of the episode if a complete rip off... :D)

[pitry.livejournal.com]

(am avoiding DS9 talking in order not to spoil it for you because you need to watch it! )

[thisbluespirit]

In that case, you need to join me in being uncool and watching Voyager! :lol:

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Nah, the real uncool show is Enterprise! :D

I tried watching a couple of Voyager episodes, for some reason it never felt right. :( Maybe I should give it another go. I'm running out of things to watch! (gasp gasp horror horror)

[thisbluespirit]

Heh. I just love Captain Janeway, that's all, really! ;-) Have you seen the first one? That's quite a good place to start, even if after that I recommend leaping about quite wildly (it's more fun that way). And it also very much reminds me of the date it was made, because a section of it is so influenced by the X-Files, it's strange, as nothing else in the show ever goes there again. :lol:

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

I largely agree with you regarding Heroes; I mean, the first season was generally pretty awesome (Sylar, as sick and evil as he was, and as quickly as some fans tired of him, was by way of being The Man, imho, and that flash-forward-to-the-future-where-he-was-President ep was more or less the bestest thing evar!), and there were some interesting things in the second one even if didn't maintain the overall excellence, and then...well, I just couldn't be bothered keeping up, really...which made me sad...

As regards Trek, I can't really find it in my heart to love anything after TOS and the 80s-era movies. Kirk/Spock/McCoy for me, really. Wrath and Khan and Undiscovered Country are the pick of the crop, movie-wise, I think. Mind you, I did actually really rather like the new film version last year; it ended just as it was getting interesting. Hopefully, there'll be a sequel.

Is this a ship of the valkyries? What have you done with all your men?

[thisbluespirit]

Yes, I would have loved to have seen where Heroes was actually supposed to be heading. Ah, well. :-(

Heh, I am just not cut out to be a proper Trek fan! The only TOS I've really watched, apart from random bits, was one of the films (is it III?) where they go to Earth and save the whales. My Dad was watching it when me and my sister were about 10 and 12 or so, and we came in, and asked if it was a comedy. He said no, but we might like it. We spent the rest of the film having a lot of fun giving him reproachful looks and asking him why he'd said it wasn't a comedy. We enjoyed that one very much. I've also seen the TNG film that has Kirk in. And I know how Kate Mulgrew says that Captain Janeway would beat Kirk in a fight, and that's priceless, too. (She would. She's absolutely right. :lol:)

I have watched some TNG, but heart sinks a bit at how terribly earnest they all are. I suspect TOS is a lot crazier from what I've seen, but I wouldn't want to spend money on obtaining it, really. The new film - I'm sure my friend has it, so I expect I'll see that soon. Everyone said it was very good. Voyager was just... it had Captain Janeway. Are you picking up on this theme here? :lol:

And Tom/B'Elanna are a TV ship that is not allowed to be broken. (And Tom is one of the mostly unlikely dodgy criminal character in the history of TV.) Also Voyager is priceless for clearly having a subtext of Chakotay waiting for the Captain... and then, just as they get home, instead going: stuff that, I'm running off with a younger, busty blonde. I think that makes it fairly unique among TV shows. I suppose it's kind of realistic, at least. *rolls eyes* I do have sensible things I like about it, too, but I expect I would like the other ST for the same sort of reasons, but they didn't have Janeway to hook me in. :-)

Plus, I bet Q doesn't propose to all the other captains...

[pedanther]

The One With The Whales was IV. (It was the first Star Trek that I remember watching, when I was quite young, and it took me a while to realise that the time travel and the invisible starship weren't normally part of the format.)

I remember one of the people involved in it talking, in an interview or something, about what he called "tap dancing", which was the trick of letting the story never take itself too seriously, while at the same time avoiding not taking it seriously enough. Star Trek IV was one of the cases where they really got that right. (It was, of course, followed by Star Trek V, which was one of the cases where they really didn't.)

[thisbluespirit]

Heh, I knew it was III or IV. 'Tap dancing' is a really nice way to put that, because I know what you mean, and I'm always attracted to things that get that balance right, but it's hard to define - it's not quite being funny, or not taking things seriously, but... Yes, nice way to put it.

I can't really remember IV in much detail, but my sister and I really enjoyed it at the time!