The cruellest rumour of them all...

[thisbluespirit]

So I don't know why I'm even posting this, except I want to make everybody else suffer along with me, but the worst DW rumour is going around - that they have found or are hot on the trail of lots - yes, lots - of the missing episodes.

It's here: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/13/wqill-doctor-who-have-a-very-special-surprise-for-us-in-november/ (caught via the excellent who_at_50)

I should be laughing cynically, of course, and I don't really believe it. The cruelty of it this time is that when they found two episodes in 2011, the articles surrounding it sounded quite definitely hopeful about finding more (and this has not been the case since Tomb's appearance in 1996 - ever after, when something's turned up it's been followed by gloomy warnings that there is NO MORE, no, we have checked the back of the cupboard and on top of the wardrobe and under the bed, and no. No.). Which made me wonder if they were on the trail of something specific and I've been vaguely hoping for something ever since - and since the anniversary is close to the BFI's Missing Believed Wiped event that if they did find something it'd be announced then. So... I am looking at this so wistfully! But... lots! That's just too much to swallow. It couldn't be true, and if it was, it'd have to be a general haul, so that would mean other lost TV as well and... well, yes. It would be very very amazing. But obviously either not true or massively exaggerated from "we've found another episode down the back of the sofa!" (Obviously, I want badly to be proved wrong on that. That's why it's so cruel.)

Also I hate burninated TV generally, have I mentioned that? Oh, yes, I have. Quite a bit. It's understandable from various reasons, but actually it's not okay to throw your only copies of nationally broadcast, professionally produced drama into tips and/or generally wipe/burn/lose them. In the 1970s when everyone was making such a concerted effort to preserve almost everything else, too, and VHS was just around the corner. And, in fact, ITV companies were still doing it in the 1980s and even 90s, when there were mergers and things. /o\

Anyway, let's make there be a point to this post. Let's have the evergreen chestnut - if there has been a serial recovered, what would you most want it to be? What other old and lost TV (if you have any interest in such things) would you want to have been uncovered sitting beside it?

Comments

[thisbluespirit]

Oh, I'm with you on all the historicals ever, yes. ;-)

And while I suspect Tumblr rumours aren't to be relied on (:lol:), to be fair Enemy of the World isn't really a particular fan favourite. (Evil of the Daleks, Power of the Daleks, and Fury from the Deep would all be more obvious Two choice. Marco Polo is such a typical wishlist serial, though, absolutely - and Web of Fear!)

[taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com]

Such a good format. They should bring it back, except I'm not entirely sure how well the historical format would work in a 45-minute episode. They tend to play out over an extended period of time. :/

Well, this shows how being on Tumblr may skew your perspective after a while. Judging by how many people lament the loss of The Enemy of the World (or maybe it's just the loss of evil!Patrick Troughton) I was under the impression it was generally coveted. :P It's funny how fandom opinions develop over the years; I've read fanzine articles/general texts on 90s fandom and been continuously appalled at what fandom deemed acceptable or not at the time (or now, for that matter).

[thisbluespirit]

Yes, it can vary quite a lot in different corners of fandom, can't it, or over the years. Not that I wouldn't want to see Enemy, of course - I really like the surviving episode!

And I really don't see why they couldn't do a straight historical - after all, Black Orchid was only 45 minutes, too. I mean that's the basic difference between New and Old Who - that format, and I do like the world-building and development that the old one offered.

[taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com]

I recently started watching the Troughton era chronologically, as that's the only one I've only seen a handful of serials of, but I'm only on The Macra Terror atm. So I have no opinions on Enemy (yet).

True about Black Orchid - I guess NuWho episodes just tend to be very flashy and fast-paced, it's hard for me to imagine the showrunners wanting to take that risk (not that a historical episode couldn't be flashy and fast-paced, but it'd be a different and more earthly kind of flashy)? Even Vincent and the Doctor, which would've worked fine as a historical as it was already a more personal and low-key episode, had a monster in it. It'd be a break in format for something I don't think most of the audience expect from Doctor Who.

[thisbluespirit]

Oh, I want to see Macra! I read the novelisation years ago and loved it and was so upset that it didn't exist - though, that's another non-fan favourite too! But I'd love more Ben and Polly and that one sounds fun and v OTT 60s. I suspect just listening to it is less so. (I have this unreasonable thing about not listening to lost audios in case they get found. I have listened to four, I think, that I managed to get hold of easily, but they make me pine for the lost pictures! I'm very silly, really.)

And "something you don't expect" is exactly what DW should be doing! I don't expect them to, sadly, but I really don't see any real reason why they shouldn't. Still, we never know - we can always hope! ;-)

[taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com]

I've only seen the first episode so far but TEAM TARDIS AT A SPA IS SO CUTE I WANT TO DIE. There's also great comedy in that part that's partly lost without visuals (it's like, you can hear the facial expressions that's supposed to go with them...). Ben and Polly are lovely-- it's so strange to think they'll go after I finish Macra, because without footage I feel like I haven't got to know them as well as I should have (thank god for Companion Chronicles and novels).

Yeaaah-- I had such high hopes for Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS this season, because if there was one episode with a concept that could break the mold it was that one. Alas, it was not to be. :c

[thisbluespirit]

TEAM TARDIS AT A SPA IS SO CUTE I WANT TO DIE.

♥ See? We should be allowed to see Patrick Troughton getting smartened up and then untidying himself again, shouldn't we? Also Anneke Will's face! (She pulls such expressive faces!) And it has Peter Jeffrey and no doubt the most unconvincing giant crabs ever. We should have it! And all the things!

;-)

I love Ben and Polly and it does really hurt how badly they're hit by the late One/Early Two gap, although I suppose Victoria doesn't fare much better.

[taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com]

I watched the rest of it today and I just. It's 1984 but with giant crabs. I love this show. Also totalitarian cheerleading teams! Ben!whump! Polly's new haircut! "The Highland fling" and Team TARDIS "dancing enthusiastically while edging slowly towards the door" (as Colin Baker so nicely narrates)! AND NO FOOTAGE OF THIS EXISTS. IT'S A CRIME, I SAY, A VERITABLE CRIME.

Ben and Polly are in more serials with still-existing footage, but I get the impression season 5 (plus The Evil of the Daleks) is more well-regarded? Idk, I fell in love with Ben and Polly as early as The War Machines because they're fab. And adorable. Reading The Dark Path made me love Victoria too though, so I'm looking forward to actually seeing her episodes. :P

[thisbluespirit]

Aw, well, it's on our list. When we rule all of time and space, it shall be found. ;-)

Yes, S5 does seem to be the fan favourite - but I suspect I'd probably prefer the previous season myself, for Ben and Polly, and the variety in the serials. But it all sounds good, and I do like Victoria - and more Troughton would just be wonderful. I hope you enjoy watching what little has survived of Victoria. (I just adore Zoe that bit more, because... how can you help that?)

[swordznsorcery.livejournal.com]

I've read fanzine articles/general texts on 90s fandom and been continuously appalled at what fandom deemed acceptable or not at the time

"The Gunfighters"! Fandom can think what it likes. I love that one.

Nice to see some love of the historicals. I miss them.

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

The weird thing is, influenced by fandom's "that was crap" attitude, I was horribly embarrassed by The Gunfighters for the longest time -- which is unfortunate, but I got a lot of fun back in 1993-4 by going online, finding DW fans, and sharing in their poking fun at it, like randomly playing soundfiles of the Last Chance Saloon song in AOL chatrooms. However, when I rewatched it recentlyish, I really got a kick out of it; it was fun.

[taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com]

The Gunfighters is so wonderful though! I really don't understand why it got such a bad rep. Is it too silly? Is it the fact that they tried to make a musical with only one song? Looking at the sort of material produced at the time (like the New Adventures, but actually most pop culture in the 90s seemed to suffer from "dark and gritty is cooler" syndrome) I sometimes get the impression some fans in the 90s took themselves a bit too seriously.

I love the historicals. Partly because they're just generally good stories, partly because I am the kind of nerd no one wants to watch The Time Monster with in case I start lecturing about Minoan art and architecture.

[swordznsorcery.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's all right. All the best people are nerdy about something!

"The Gunfighters" suffered because it was unwatchable for so many years. All that most of us knew about it was what we'd read in guides; so the opinions of a couple of writers became gospel. We were told that it was a dreadful story, and with no evidence to the contrary, we believed it. You're right about fans taking themselves too seriously though, certainly. I know that some people don't like the jokey tone of stories like "The Gunfighters" and "The Romans", but I like both of them. There's room for a bit of fun, as well as the really serious stories like "The Crusade". It's not like DW doesn't give us plenty to choose from!

[taiyou_to_tsuki.livejournal.com]

Ah, the infamous program guides. And yes, I think one of the strengths of Doctor Who is that it can be extremely genre-defying, even within the boundaries of one particular era with its own trademark feel. Personally I adore The Romans and The Gunfighters, but they can't be to everyone's taste. There's always going to be someone who likes a serial most fans find terrible though(speaking as someone who considers The Trial of a Time Lord the charming and somewhat nonsensical comfort food of the soul...).

[swordznsorcery.livejournal.com]

I knew it had to have a fan somewhere! ;) Still, I can't talk. I hate "Genesis of The Daleks", which is generally seen as a classic, and I'm oddly fond of "Time-Flight", which is one of the most hated adventures of all.

Although I'm still not entirely sure if I like it for the story, or for the blatantly giggling guest cast...