"I may have had a bang on the head but this is a dashed queer story!""

[thisbluespirit]

I've been away in London, but am back again.  Erm.  Obviously.

Never mind that: I've finished watching not only Talons now, but Horror of Fang Rock.

Spoilers for both follow, if you haven't seen them, although I'll try to keep them as few & as minor as possible.

The Talons of Weng-Chiang: "It's like an accident in the warehouse where they keep the nineteenth century period-drama archetypes."  (And probably a very nasty accident at that).  I quote About Time, as that does sum it up nicely.  It is indeed very wonderful, although not quite as wonderful as Robots (but I say that from an entirely biased point of view).  The 'racism' is mostly 70s mocking 19th C racism, but they're not quite free of it enough themselves yet to get away with it altogether.  Still...

Anyway, I have to say it was even better this time on the DVD (I thought I'd watched it since I'd had it, but maybe only the commentary?).  My video recording via UK Gold was so bad I had no idea there was actual location filming in it.  That came as a surprise this time round.  Heh.  But it's great.  I'm making that point plain, because I want to  focus on my two niggles with it, instead of going on about its wonders (and, doesn't it just have wonders on show).  One is the characterisation of Leela.  It's fun and Robert Holmes seems to be revelling in her savagery.  The only problem with it is watching it after Robots (which I usually do).  The characterisation in the two is so very different - both expanding on different aspects of the character from Face of Evil, but it's definitely enough to make me blink and feel put out until at least Ep5, by which time I've got used to this version.  It's not impossible to reconcile the two, but it does come as a shock.  (I'm beginning to wonder if I should reverse the order, but I'm not sure that would do it, either.)

The other niggle is minor, given that he has a bag on his head, but couldn't Michael Spice have managed layers to the villain, instead of rant, rant, rant?  (There is one bit in episode 6 where he calms down a little).  He's the deformed and deranged phantom at the heart of this 19th C gothic tale, but there's no interest to him.  And everybody else is acting their socks off.  Still, I've never tried to play a deranged future scientist with a bag on my head, so let's be kind.  It works - it's not bad.  Maybe it's just my liking for Phantom (and, yes, I do mean the show.  Sorry.) but I unreasonably expect sighting of the 'phantom' to be a sinister thrill.  (Not, oh no, it's another ranting maniac.  Yay.  Actually, the other sources would echo that need for some sort of fascination to the villain, too.)

*

Horror: This is so very neat.  I doesn't reach the heights of the other two, but it does what it's designed to do just about perfectly.  Plus, while Robots (sorry to be a bore) is unquestionably my favourite Leela story, this has a lot of lovely moments, especially Leela-Doctor exchanges.

Her: "Do not be afraid." (to the Doctor, and his delayed reaction), and teasing him about being a Time Lord is so wonderful, (but completely unquotable), plus her complete joy when he says her suggestion is a "beautiful idea".  Her undressing in front of Vince: "I'm no lady!"; her gloating at the end.

Not to be outdone, the Doctor's busy running around, seeming to glory in the danger and proclaiming doom.  "I've got news for you, gentlemen.  This lighthouse is under attack and by morning we could all be dead!"  The recitation of the ballad at the end is exactly right for the ending.

And I like the blobby music for the blob.

Plus, I do like the way it highlights the Doctor's fallibility.  The obvious and easy mistake that he makes in locking the creature in with them perhaps less than his careless throwing away of the diamonds at the end.  (He simply doesn't imagine that anyone will put value on diamonds in a situation like this.  There are times when the Doctor can be dangerously naive and it's great to see Four show that.) 

Put all three together and it's probably no wonder that people who were children are the time regard everything that came after as disappointing and tame.  I mean, if the killer robots didn't do it, there was Mr Sin the next week.  And after however long the gap was, the possessed Reuben and the whole Everybody Dies on Horror of Fang Rock.

Of course, I have a problem with this.  I can't possibly do a Happy Ending for Horror.  *Glares at Terrance Dicks*

Oh, and my one plot niggle: Adelaide.  We need her to point out how much better Leela is, of course, but what is she doing there?  It's rather early in the century for a prosperous, titled businessman to have a female secretary, so if she were that, I'd expect her to be a lot more intelligent and efficient.  (Maybe he's really shabby enough to have her because she's cheaper than a male?)  On the other hand, if she is, as Harker claims, Palmerdale's 'fancy woman', it really doesn't seem evident from her behaviour or anyone else's.  Still, it's marginally more likely than the secretary explanation, as it wouldn't get spelled out on screen.  I think I'll put her down as an insoluable plot point like the sabotage in Robots.

And you know what the best thing is?  I've got Image of the Fendahl lined up.  I've never seen it before and I know Chris Boucher wasn't happy about his script for it, so I shall not expect wonders, but still another Chris Boucher Leela script - and I know virtually nothing about it, which is a miracle. 

***
 
Plus, unrelatedly, despite neither winning (oh, and how much I wanted Spooks to!), the Spooks and Doctor Who presence all over the BAFTAs last night was rather pleasing.  Call me strange, but the flick of the camera from Peter Firth to David Tennant for absolutelky no reason whatever half-way through amused me.  It felt like I'd wandered into crossover-land.  But little things please me.  (Although, it'd be nice to guess it's going to the show that dealt with the most disturbing material and be wrong, but there you go.)

Comments

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I may be weird (okay, I AM weird) but I found Leela MORE attractive when fully clothed in Horror than when she's wearing little in (for example) Robots of Death or The Invisible Enemy...

STILL haven't watched Talons, but then I'm currently revelling in Ben Daniels' awesomeness so Who's getting little look-in!

Hope you had a good/enjoyable/productive trip to London!

[thisbluespirit]

Something nice to look forward to when you eventually view everything Ben Daniels has ever been in!

You'll find it strange when you come to Spooks and you get 3 and a half seasons before he turns up for an episode. It'll seem strangely lacking in the Ben department!! ;-)

(And, yes, all three really - I went to a meeting, saw my sisters and also saw the London Marathon as well.)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Something nice to look forward to when you eventually view everything Ben Daniels has ever been in!

LOL Have you SEEN the length of his IMDB entry? Mind you, I'm getting closer and closer with each passing day! :D

You'll find it strange when you come to Spooks and you get 3 and a half seasons before he turns up for an episode. It'll seem strangely lacking in the Ben department!! ;-)

What makes you think I won't watch S1 and then skip to his episode? :D

(And, yes, all three really - I went to a meeting, saw my sisters and also saw the London Marathon as well.)

And which category does watching the Marathon come under?

[thisbluespirit]

*Squeaks with horror*

Well, unless you really hate S1 or something...

(London Marathon - that was both productive and fun. Fun, obviously and productive because we weren't there for anyone particular so we stayed and cheered on everyone, especially those towards the back.)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

*Squeaks with horror*

Well, unless you really hate S1 or something...

*giggles*

(London Marathon - that was both productive and fun. Fun, obviously and productive because we weren't there for anyone particular so we stayed and cheered on everyone, especially those towards the back.)

Neat...

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

The 'racism' is mostly 70s mocking 19th C racism, but they're not quite free of it enough themselves yet to get away with it altogether.

Thanks. I still quite like "Talons," and fandom would tell me (or at least the tiresome anon meme would do so) that it's wrong and bad to do that, because it celebrated racism!!11!. Well, no, I don't think it did celebrate it. Mocking was being attempted, but, as you say, they were still a little too close to suspecting that the ideas might be correct for it to feel anything but uncomfortable.

Still, I think that Litefoot and Jago were a great team, and I loved the Doctor dressing as Sherlock Holmes, and I just thought that the atmosphere was brilliant.

But then, my fannish thoughts are usually wrong, according to other people, so I've never been entirely certain why I want any contact with fandom... LOL

(Of course, most of my Classic Who opinions were formed during the 1980s. I probably owe myself the chance to rewatch everything from my cynical adult perspective. Oh boy, that would be dangerous...)

Horror: This is so very neat.  I doesn't reach the heights of the other two, but it does what it's designed to do just about perfectly.

It's not one of my favorites, but when I think about it, it had wonderful atmosphere. A lot of the stories from this timeframe did.

There are times when the Doctor can be dangerously naive and it's great to see Four show that.) 

I'm not certain it's that he's naive so much as that he's got alien views and perspectives. Four (for all that many people seem to hate him now because Tom Baker's weird) was quite an alien Doctor a lot of the time, which I enjoyed tremendously.

I've got Image of the Fendahl lined up.  I've never seen it before and I know Chris Boucher wasn't happy about his script for it, so I shall not expect wonders, but still another Chris Boucher Leela script - and I know virtually nothing about it, which is a miracle.

It wasn't precisely a favorite, but it was another that had great atmosphere, and the scary concept of "How does one kill death?". So, yes, it's worth seeing.

[thisbluespirit]

Well, the fanwisdom that I've received (mostly from 1990s radw and DWM is that Talons is a classic - it gets into the top ten easily when they've had polls in the past.) So, no, you're not weird. And it's definitely trying to poke fun at the British imperialism, and also is chock full of 19th C penny dreadful type images, occurences and stock characters. It just slips up on a couple of 70s non pc moments as well. *sigh*

Well, there is a certain naivety that comes across, very occasionally, in various incarnations when he seems to forget these things. But you could just as easily put it as alienness. It's a part of that alienness, so maybe we're differing on semantics.

And people hate Four? I mean, he's only ever been beaten once (last year by David Tennant, duh) in the DWM's annual best Doctor poll. When and where did that happen? It's usually Four fans sneering at the rest of us for thinking that any good could come of the 80s!! ;-D Evidently, I hang out in all the wrong places!!

I am really looking forward to Image later. It's so rare to have one lined up that I've never seen, never read the novelisation and haven't been spoilered for, especially when it's anything that has a half-decent reputation.

Anyway, you couldn't be weird for liking Talons. It'd be very weird and scary if the whole of DW fandom liked the same things. In fact, it sounds like the plot of an episode to me. Arguing to the death about it instead is human nature. Heh.

[infinitejoys.livejournal.com]

It's been months since I saw Talons, so I can't say anything about that, really, but I watched Horror of Fang Rock recently! I think it's a solid story -- creepy and atmospheric. I agree about Adelaide's purpose, besides contrasting with Leela, being unclear, though I will forgive the writers, since they let Leela smack her for being so hysterical.

I never understood why they made Louise Jameson wear brown contacts. Maybe it's a good thing wearing them bothered her so much, because her eyes are beautiful.

(btw, Robots of Death might very well be my favorite Leela story as well. It's a great story to follow "Face of Evil." Leela is awesome in it, and Four's been given some very snappy dialogue as well.)

[thisbluespirit]

Heh. That's exactly what i think about Adelaide. It would have been rather interesting if she had been an exceptionally bright, feminist secretary, contrasted with Leela, but it would have spoiled the nature of Horror of Fang Rock.

Yay. I love Robots of Death rather insanely, as I confessed a couple of weeks ago. :-) (Have you got an answer for who commits sabotage at the end of episode 2?)

[john_amend_all]

The other niggle is minor, given that he has a bag on his head, but couldn't Michael Spice have managed layers to the villain, instead of rant, rant, rant?

You think it might have worked better if the deformed evil megalomaniac trying to retrieve his time machine had been the one played by Peter Pratt a few serials before?

(I've no idea if the story really was originally intended for the Master, but it's a plausible enough idea).

[thisbluespirit]

There's something I'd never thought of. I don't know, but I'm so glad it isn't. How to make me grateful for Magnus Greel. I can't help but feel the whole thing might have overbalanced else.

[jjpor.livejournal.com]

I think Talons does deserve its place up there in the canonical Who hall of greatness or whatever. If you ignore the racial failure (which to be honest is a bit like ignoring the three hundred pound gorilla in the room), it's one of those stories like City of Death, where they rolled the dice and by some mad good fortune they all came up sixes. I think you're right about the race issue; the story is clearly trying to riff off nineteenth-early twentieth century pulp fiction; Fu Manchu and so forth, but to later viewers the effect is somewhat undercut by the degree of casual racism that was still considered acceptable at that time on British television.

Having said that, I do revere the rest of Talons in a slightly unreasonable way. Litefoot and Jago are just magnificent. Even Magnus Greel's one-note portrayal doesn't grate all that much with me; he's supposed to be a thoroughly despicable character, a bullying war criminal, so I can live with it. And we get plenty of nuanced villainy from Li H'sen Chang, who despite being the other big black mark against the story with his fantastically offensive makeup job, is nevertheless a genuinely sympathetic character, and very well played.

Fang Rock is the lesser story, but also has its moments; not to mention being a pretty bleak tale all round. And noteworthy of course for being the only time we see one of the infamous Rutans onscreen, who, despite being a green blob turns out to be not to dissimilar to his Sontaran enemies, in character at least. Which was perhaps a deliberate point? I don't know; all I do know is that it's impossible to tell who really has the upper hand in that Sontaran-Rutan war because it would seem that the Doctor always claims that the ones he happens to be confronted with at that particular moment are the ones losing it...:-D

[thisbluespirit]

It is rather wonderful. I wanted to make that clear before I niggled. I don't really have a problem with Weng-Chiang, except that everyone else is so darned good, he looks as those he's not making the effort in comparison. Or maybe because everything says Gothic Victorian twisted evil mastermind and so I read : so, should be fascinating/charming but utterly evil and deranged. ;-)

My only real problem with it is simply the contrast between Leela in Robots and Leela in this. I keep watching DW in order and everytime this trips me up. Both versions are pretty good, but they take some work to make them really be the same character.

Heh. The Doctor would say these things to any passing Rutan / Sontaran! you're so right. :-D

[belantana.livejournal.com]

I hope you had a good time in London! It is my civic duty to enquire of your thoughts on Massive Spooks Casting Spoiler. (Link has spoiler-cut if you're tentative!)

[thisbluespirit]

I had avoided clicking on that, because I hate to be spoiled on Spooks, but you made me go look.

Oh me, oh, my!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I'll be counting down the months even more than usual. :-D

[belantana.livejournal.com]

:) :) :) :) :)

I didn't even think about not clicking on it, even though I usually hate spoilers too. Maybe I consider casting spoilers fair game? I don't know. ANYWAY, YAY.

[thisbluespirit]

Yay, indeed!

(If anyone else is glancing at this, bugiarda's news is sort of the Spooks equivalent of an announcement of a multi Doctor story or the return of the Brigadier. Only better and much more needed!!!)

If it's not true, we'll need to send more than postcards to Kudos. (But there were even photos!!!)

Okay, will try and calm down now. I just need to find someone I can tell in the real world, but the only person I can think of would murder me for telling her something like this!

[belantana.livejournal.com]

It HAS to be true. The backlash if it is a hoax will be truly tremendous.

This really is the kind of news that needs to be shared, isn't it? You can tell me if you like - hang on while I forget it... Okay, I know nothing, what's going on, tell tell tell!!

[thisbluespirit]

*falls about laughing*

I KNOW you know!!!